Patricide was it motivated by listening to metal or horrendous sexual abuse?

Back in July in New York Brigitte Harris murdered her father. It seems her crime was motivated by a lifetime of horrific sexual abuse. There is an interesting new article on the case here which gives the full background:

village voice > news > The Goth Girl, Her Preppy Sister, Sexual Abuse and Murder by Maria Luisa Tucker


"Brigitte Harris's MySpace page portrays a young woman with interests ranging from musical theater and sewing to heavy metal and the occult."

In the aftermath of her father's murder, Carleen has been talking a lot. She launched a public-relations campaign to "Save Brigitte." Within 36 hours of the murder, she had hired star defense attorney Arthur Aidala and told the world that both she and Brigitte had been victims of a pedophile father who regularly and repeatedly raped them from a very young age. Within a week, Carleen had set up a website collecting donations for a defense fund and had held press conferences to round up support. The murder of their "monster" father was simply karma, she told Montel Williams and audiences at a candlelight vigil. If Brigitte snapped, she implied, it was their father who had pushed her.

Thanks to Carleen's efforts, a small crowd of supporters have lined up behind Brigitte, including U.S. Senator Chuck Schumer and New York State Senators Eric Adams and Diane Savino.

TV report just after the arrest.




It seems likely that Brigitte's interest in metal music and gothic culture will play an important part in the ongoing coverage of the case as it does in this article.

Take a look at the details accumulated from her myspace The Original Dark Angel and Vampire freaks profiles in this article which sugges6s that listening to a metal sparked her quest for vengeance:

Brigitte Harris Accused of Murdering and Castrating Her Stepfather ...

Harris describes her interests in more detail within her VampireFreaks.com profile:

"[Interests include] everything within the gothic culture, the night time, graveyards by nightfall. I am a thoughtful person when it comes to things. I don't talk a lot, I love the gothic culture, and I like wearing things that resemble medieval times. In my free time I like to read, listen to music, go [to] the movies, Broadway shows, extreme sports and swimming."

Yet if you look at Brigitte's own description of her music shows why she likes metal it has a lot to do with her own musical ability as much with dark reality of the bleak world some metal lyrics describe:

I love all Genres of Musis. My fav. genre is Rock;mostly Metal. I love Rock b/c i Relate to what most bands sing(or scream) about. i also just love the fact that they play their own instruments. thats why i love Classical and Opera. my fav. instruments R the drums,cello, mandarin and Chinese guitar. I have been playing the clarinet since the 4th grade. OTEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Linkin Park ^_^, A7X-Avenged 7 Fold, Pinkly Smooth, Opiate 4 the Masses, Kittie, Korn, System of a Down,The Used, My Chemical Romance,Sick AS Monday, Disturbed, Staind, Lacuna Coil, As I Lay Dying, Evanescence, Pagoda, 3 Days Grace, Letter Kills, Killswitch Engage, Breaking Benjamin, The Rasmus, Muse, The Cure, Rob Zombie, HIM,
Slayer, Atreyu, Cradle of Filth, Godsmack, Metallica, A Perfect Circle, Rammstein,
Static-X, Mudvayne, Underoath, Bleed the Dream, Senses Fail, 9 inch Nails, Drowning Pool, Story of the Year, Shinedown, Silvertide, Papa Roach,
Chevelle,... Tchaikovsky, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Bach, Imogen Heap, Bizet, Andrea Bocelli, Leopold Stokowski

She also loves many classical composers yet strangely no article mentions her liking for Mozart as a significant fact in the murders. [I note that Brigitte doesn't actually mention any Gothic rock bands here but discriminating between metal and goth can be tricky for media people.] How abou the fact that Brigitte unlike her sister wanted go open about the abuse rather than hiding it?

The reality is that Brigitte seems to have killed her father because he abused her. The music she listened too and the films she watched are irrelevant, likely to be found on thousands of similar profiles on the net, if she listened to rap or country the result would have been much the same. I suspect that members of the family who refuse to accept that the father could have abused his two daughters are likely to use such details of metal culture in a negative fashion.

Meanwhile, as the case heads toward trial—the plea agreement that the defense had hoped for has yet to materialize—Brigitte's family has become increasingly polarized. Carleen and her maternal relatives have portrayed Brigitte as a victim who finally snapped, while Eric's side of the family denies any sexual abuse and say the sisters planned their father's murder for ulterior motives. The family split was apparent during a court date last month. Seven members of Eric's family traveled from Rhode Island and Colorado to attend a brief hearing at Queens Criminal Court, where they exchanged information and hugs with the prosecutor. Carleen was notably absent; in her place was an advocate from a domestic-violence nonprofit that helps those in trouble for retaliating against their abusers.

Link to the

Save Brigitte Harris website

Computer and Mobile games show school tribes

Bratz [those dolls] now have a computer game in which they solve all the high school divisions... the game is not very good apparently. Sounds like stereotype city.

Bratz 4 Real - Review

December 3, 2007 - High school. Four years of homework and hall passes, four years of teachers and friends. And four years of the same friends, too, as you're doomed to fall into the trap of joining a tight, exclusive clique and never being able to socialize with anyone outside of that small circle. That's what Bratz 4 Real asserts, as it sets up a story of four fashion-crazed friends who band together to eliminate their high school's clique system, and encourage all different kinds of students to start interacting with one another. It's an interesting premise, one that shows more promise than the storyline used in past Bratz-brand titles. But while the theme of this adventure works pretty well, its execution ends up being pretty shallow.

It's a constant string of short conversations. As you control one of the four Bratz friends, you run around their high school, the local mall and an adjacent park talking to non-player characters, then talking to more non-player characters, then going back to the first character ... and so on and so forth. The plan the Bratz have concocted involves bridging the gap between different social groups, none of which is comfortable with talking to any other. So your character is constantly serving as the messenger, moving from the nerds to the jocks, from the punks to the goths, from the populars to the preppies and every other combination in-between.

It's interesting from a plot perspective. You see the popular girl in charge of costumes for the school play reach out to a punk chick with clothing design experience for help. You see a preppy who loves to proofread manuscripts assisting a nerd with his latest anime fanfiction. You see bright, cheerful cheerleaders come together with drab, gothic girls and find common ground, and it's all very heartwarming to see....

Meanwhile in Australia:

Aussie game creator blasts sex critics | NEWS.com.au

Screenshots ... scenes from the game Coolest Girl In School / Supplied

AN independent Adelaide game developer has hit back at claims her upcoming mobile phone game encourages teen pregnancy and drug use. Coolest Girl In School, a role-playing game designed for mobiles, recently gained international notoriety after the Australian Family Association blasted it for being "grossly irresponsible".

The game's creator Holly Owen was "surprised" by the attack, but has revealed that none of the game's critics speak from experience. "We were really surprised at the lengths people went to condemn the game when no-one has actually played it yet," said Ms Owen, creative director of Champagne For The Ladies.

"I believe it was even accused of causing pregnancy, which I find hilarious," she said. "Someone hadn't had enough sex education to realise that you can't get pregnant from a mobile phone."

Coolest Girl In School is based around a high-school theme that, according to Ms Owen, justifies the controversial content.

"If we left out things like sex and drugs and rock n' roll... then it would really be a game about teachers and homework and pimples, which would be boring and not represent the whole theme."

The game uses multiple-choice questions, which Ms Owen describes as "the type usually found in teen girl mags".

"The strategy lies in making as many friends as you possibly can, which means that pleasing one subculture of people (like more reckless types) isn't necessarily going to do you any favours," Ms Owen said.

Players can customise their characters based on social stereotypes of different youth subcultures.

"You choose from a very extensive wardrobe that contains outfits from subcultures including emos, fashionistas, nerds, etcetera and then you go out into the world and encounter non-player characters," she said.

"Essentially they ask you questions or things happen to you and you've got three choices in terms of how you respond to their question, or the event."

One scene from the game shows an "emo" character asking: "Wanna bludge and fake our own suicides?" The response options vary from "Sure! Can it be suicide by chocolate?" to "Teenage suicide don't do it!" and "Can't sorry – I'm already failing"....

Number of people dying of suicide outnumbers those killed in wars - Pravda.Ru

More nonsense from Russia this time:

Number of people dying of suicide outnumbers those killed in wars - Pravda.Ru

30.11.2007
It is worthy of note that every real suicide is a critical demonstration of personal despair, whereas every demonstrative suicide is a potentially real one. Juvenile suicide is a much more complex phenomenon than it seems to be at the first sight. It is an open secret that the demonstrative suicidal conduct is typical teenagers, like other kinds of expressive behavior. In some subcultures, like Emo or Goth teenagers, for example, the marks of a failed suicide attempt (bruises or cuts) are viewed as high rank military insignia. Most often, a teenager tries to commit suicide not to simply impress his parents, but to overcome the fear of death. Suicidal behavior among young people may also be of imitative character.

Campaigning developments

The Epetition at Downing Street website against Subcultural Hate Crime has shot through the 2000 mark and is now on 2105. This increase seems likely to have been caused by the spurt of interest following Sophie's Funeral plus the recent concert. The youtube video of her funeral has now had almost 11,000 views over 2 weeks and can be found all over the net.

Another development is a new campaigning organisation the Gothic Liberation Front aiming to help goths facing discrimination and attack has started in the USA. They too have been inspired by the the death of Sophie. They are setting up branches all over the place they have one in the UK, France and in Germany and hopefully they will prove a useful support for goths and help them out in times of trouble. They seem to be taking a more militant approach to the whole thing, but it looks like their heart is in the right place. Since all they are suggesting is self defence which is perfectly legal that is fair enough. The more organizations addressing this problem the better. Check them out here.

I think part of their stance may have something to with the aftermath of the breakdown of Goth Help Us mentioned earlier - Farewell Goth Help Us.

Sikh, Goth and Chav

BBC - Devon - Community Life - Sikh-ing his Britishness:

Ineresing project here and poem.

Goth & Chav

How long before
they see me as a Sikh
they realise I'm not unique
they treat me like a human
someone cries "Is this true man"
they see that inside we're tougher
we don't have to suffer
they realise?
they start to sympathise
they realise the power to touch
they realise it means so much
my love turns to hate
you become my mate
we get noticed
we stop getting dissed
I've got nothing to fear
They get me out of here

Chav versus Emo division dramatised

Interesting...

The Weston Mercury - Modern twist on Shakespeare classic
20 November 2007

TWO star-crossed lovers in sovereign rings and studded belts will meet on stage in Cheddar next month.

Kings of Wessex School has chosen to give the Shakespeare classic Romeo and Juliet a modern twist depicting the Capulets and Montagues as 'chavs' and 'emos'.

Actors from year nine are preparing to get loved up for the production, which takes place on December 6 and 7.

The cast of more than thirty students, including Ben Champion as Romeo and Sophie Caunt as Juliet, will take to the stage four hundred years after the original play was written.

This modern version includes songs from Hard-Fi, Massive Attack and Justin Timberlake and draws loosely on school life.

Tickets, priced £3 for adults and £2 for students and concessions, are available at the school office.

In fact this idea has been used before:

Goths, chavs and Hell's Kitchen for Shakespeare - Times Online

June 27, 2005

IT’S Shakespeare but the Bard might not recognise it. A Winter’s Tale is now a battle between chavs and goths while the BBC has signed Twiggy to appear in a modern Taming of the Shrew. On Sunday, 10,000 children from 400 schools will take part in an event designed to energise Shakespeare’s works for the MTV generation. After a series of BBC sponsored workshops, they will perform 30-minute abridged versions of his plays at theatres across Britain to create a record-breaking One Night of Shakespeare...

Another school is using Twelfth Night to explore the issues of immigration and asylum, while the tragic jealousies of A Winter’s Tale are relocated to the teenage tribes of chavs and goths.

Why is this significant well it shows in two separate schools these rivalries seem worthy enough to dramatise.

Tragic death of girl revealed

The UK has been gripped by news of a mass murderer whose crimes have been uncovered recently. One of the bodies dug up was that of 18-year-old goth and metal fan Dinah McNicol, who disappeared in 1991.

As Dinah grew older, she became, according to her father, a "typical teenage girl".
Her taste in music and clothes, which she made herself or bought in charity shops, was gothic and hippy. She had a couple of boyfriends, but nothing too serious. The room she shared with her sister Shauna was a complete state, he recalls. "There was make-up and clothes everywhere. They used to share everything.

"Dinah was going through a bit of a 'goth' phase. She used to wear a lot of black and was into heavy metal. She was a really lovely girl with such a personality. She could make friends with anyone."

read more...
How I planned my suicide after Dinah went missing, by her heartbroken father | the Daily Mail

The police released a different picture of her last week saying...

Yesterday police released a new picture of Dinah in an attempt to jog the memories of any witnesses 16 years after she disappeared. Detective Superintendent Tim Wills, of Essex Police, said: “This image could be important because the photograph publicised for the past 16 years is of Dinah sporting a striking gothic image in a formal pose.

“This image shows a distinctly different and more relaxed young woman and it may be enough to trigger someone’s memory.”

The man who killed her it seems was a serial killer who would kill any young woman.

Rest in peace Dinah, Vicky Hamilton and all the other victims of these foul crimes!

Derelict-Day of the Lost - Alternative Weekender suuported by Liverpool Capital Of Culture

The Liscard Alternative has been given a grant as part of Liverpool Capital Of Culture 2008 Celebrations. For a Subculture Day/Alt Festival called Derelict-Day of the Lost (in memory of Sophie Lancaster and all Alts and LBGTs that have lost their life in the past year).

"Feb 2008- Derelict-Day Of The Lost: a WEEKENDER of discos,bands and stalls in Wallasey!! The aim of this big gig is for awareness and Remembrance for the alternative and TG community who are no longer with us due to bullying, bullycides and fatal attacks, and for animals suffering cruelty, who also have no voice. The weekender covers: goth rock metal cyber emo skater biker rivethead 80s punk LBGT etc etc etc...

The Liscard Alternative is a charity (based unsurprisingly in Liscard in Wallasey) to provide a drop in, media,culture,lifestyle/lifeskills,advice and retail facility for all young persons aged 11-25 who are being bullied or getting abuse for the way they dress and/or their sexuality. This remit covers Alt kids and LGBTs mostly,but anyone who is suffering bullying and abuse is welcome to come along. We have a community bank account with Barclays who are very supportive of our project."

They are also hosting regular fund-raisers and trying to establish a local alternative/LGBT centre. More details at their livejournal and myspace pages.

Farewell Goth Help Us

Been to draft this post for a while.

Goth Help Us International folded at the end of Ocober and was a campaigning organization which only started in April 2006 by Rebecca K Hohm. They had their detractors in recent times, but they also did some good things and help raise awareness that goths can be useful members of the community. Considering the hugely negative press goth often gets, especially in the States they have to be applauded for that. The San Diego branch appeared in this report on the local news.

This is part of the introduction to what was their website before it was taken down:

Goth Help Us" was founded in April 2006 in the United States and is a grassroots effort to help humanity. Hopefully we'll help the world realize that goths are much more than strange or odd people. We want to try to prove to everyone that goths are also compassionate, loving, and extremely caring people. We also know that depression plagues many of us, and the only true way to rid yourself of depression is to go out and help other people. Maybe by helping others, we'll find our smiles again.

This organization is about wanting to help people and to network with other goths in hopes of trying to help humanity in general. We are organizing blood drives. We are helping the homeless. We are making dreams come true for sick children. We are helping fund animal shelters. We are helping to beautify our cities again. We are helping each other and helping others.

We just want to spread peace and also try to help stop the violence against goths.

We collaborate with already well-established charitable organizations, such as The Red Cross, The Humane Society, and Habitat for Humanity. We are NOT a charity. We are a humanitarian organization. We are a peaceful and compassionate sect of people and now we're proving it to the world.

Here are some of the projects they were involved in.

* Drivers for ride shares in a Need-A-Goth program for people under the influence
* Escorting and assisting grieving elderly individuals at cemeteries
* Food service at homeless shelters for adults and children
* Blood drives
* Toy drives
* Beach clean-ups
* Housing cleanup for the disabled
* Animal care for the Humane Society as a volunteer caregiver walking and exercising animals, in food preparation, or even protesting of animal cruelty

Goth Help Us were involved in the early stages of the aftermath of the Sophie Lancaster case and helped tell people about it. Their collapse came about partially over arguments over the implications of the whole Hate Crimes debate which the death of Sophie caused. It was Goth Help Us who originally raised the idea of using Hate Crime legislation to address the issue and promoted it. Their campaign got somewhat carried away in some of the imagery they used. As we noted here before that whole issue aroused strong feelings both positive and negative see Hate Crime and Subcultures - the debate.

It was from that idea the more successful hate crimes campaign in the UK developed.

From what I understand it seems that in raising the issue prominently the organization became internally divided. You can read a little about this here. The group also had external critics.

It is sad that an organization which in its short life did much good fell apart in such a way.

The San Diego Branch was particularly active and its organisation was prompted over a particularly nasty case of assault on some local goths:

Synchonicity is the best way to describe the chain of events that occurred to make Goth Help Us San Diego happen as it did. A negative act with positive repercussions. Goth Help Us as a whole is still a new organization and at the precise time that was necessary to get everything moving in the right direction, a wrong was done. Jim Howard, the current president of Goth Help Us San Diego, and a small group of friends and family were accosted on the street by a number of drunk, belligerent people. As Jim was assaulted it was made clear that he and his group was chosen due to their subculture affiliation. This can be otherwise known as a “hate crime.” The courts will not recognize this attack as a hate crime at this time.

This act came as a blow to the San Diego Goth community as the people that were involved in this attack were well respected members of the community. Alongside the choice of target, the Goth community is appalled that the courts will not recognize subcultures as a motivation for hate crime. Jim was, unfortunately, rushed to the hospital and had to undergo surgery in order to repair the damage that was done. Rather than acting in a similar fashion and attacking others, verbally, physically or any other way, Jim decided to act out and motivate the San Diego community to work together and help dispel the negative image that Goths have.

Here is the report on the case from Angst zine in September:

As many people in the Southern California region are aware, there has been a problem with violent crime against the Gothic community. None of us are certain precisely why this is, but we can guess; bad press, bad public image and misinformation undoubtedly top the list. The most notable California violence was the attack on 4 San Diego Goths. Outside of the United States, two young Goths were attacked in the United Kingdom and one lost her life while the other, at the time of this writing, is still comatose. Alongside these two attacks there have been many other attacks large and small across the globe. The first thing that should be stated is that this is clearly hate motivated. There is no rationale that can be used to defend these mindless acts. In San Diego, California, though, justice has been served and a blow has been struck against the would-be attackers and dangers to the Gothic community.

After a year-long wait, the four Goths from San Diego finally found justice in the courts. They were attacked by a Navy man and his brother, which resulted in the hospitalization of Jim Howard, the current Goth Help Us - San Diego Chapter President. As of the end of August, the Navy man that attacked Jim, his wife and two friends was found guilty by a jury of his peers on 4 related counts, 2 of which were felonious. The brother is set for a trial potentially for 2 felony counts. Furthermore, the San Diego District Attorney should most definitely get a mention as they fought for the rights of the attacked and the San Diego Gothic community. *

Here is an article on the group and an interview with its founder.
The Denver branch is continuing as an independent organisation as is San Diego under San Diego’s Gothic Volunteer Alliance (GVA). So locally the good work will continue.

Blackburn - Goths and emos found a place to go

After all the earlier Blackburn fuss in October about the "dangers" of goths, metalers and emos on the streets alternative venue The Cellar Bar and pub The White Rose are now offering them a place to hang out safely. Much kudos to the managers/landlords involved.

It was Doddy who commented on the SOPHIE campaign page:

"i dont know if you know , maybe its old news but two pubs in blackburn town centre shut their doors to over 18's on a saturday afternoon to let in the goths n emos or whatever to give em somewhere to go , form 12 til 6 i think . one week it is the white bull and the next is the cellar bar . i think these landlords/ladys should be applauded for their actions because i presume that they will be losing a bit of cash by stopping serving alcohol."

Thugs use goon bag to bash goths - Queensland - BrisbaneTimes

Thugs use goon bag to bash goths - Queensland - BrisbaneTimes

Christine Kellett | November 14, 2007 - 2:32PM

Two men have faced court over a violent assault which saw a group of goths bashed with a goon bag.

Luke Anthony Harrison, 21, and Mereki Ian Pryor, 19, were each sentenced to jail for the attack, which left five members of Brisbane's gothic community nursing cuts and bruises.

The District Court today heard Harrison and Pryor had been drinking goon - or cask wine - in a park at the corner of Wickham Terrace and Ann Street in Fortitude Valley about 10.30pm on July 30, 2005 when the group walked past.

After shouting insults such as "freaks" and "faggots", Pryor approached the three women and two men, aged between 19 and 24, asked them if they wanted to fight and began throwing punches and kicks.

Harrison, carrying the bag of goon, also became involved, using it to take a swing at one of the women, knocking her glasses off her face. Another woman was also hit.

Crown prosecutor Chris Minnery said one of the group managed to grab the cask.

"F*** off or I'll break the goon," she said while threatening to stomp on the bag.

The attack stopped when the group managed to flee to safety at the nearby Orient Hotel. None were seriously injured.

Pryor's defence barrister, Megan Robbins, put her client's behaviour down to alcohol abuse, telling the court that at the time he was drinking up to three litres of cask wine a day.

"His judgement was obviously impaired to a significant degree," Ms Robbins explained, prompting Judge Julie Dick to fire back: "His liver can't have been too good either."

"This is public violence on a group of people who were just going about their business," the judge told the pair, who both pleaded guilty to charges of assault occasioning bodily harm in company.

"They are entitled to dress and look how they like as long as they don't interfere with the rest of the community."

Pryor, who is already serving a three-and-a-half year prison term for unrelated offences, had an extra six months added to his sentence, but will be eligible to apply for parole today.

Harrison received a 12 month term and was released immediately on parole after Judge Dick accepted he had played a lesser role in the assault.

Another articles adds a few new details:
Men 'bashed goths with wine cask'
NEWS.com.au, Australia - November 14, 2007

By Christine Flatley Two men have faced court over a vicious street brawl where a cask wine bladder was used to beat up a group of "goths" in Brisbane. ...

Pryor - who had a severe alcohol problem at the time and was drinking up to three litres of wine every day - approached the group and began to provoke them before hitting one of the men three times in the head.

The court was told a fight erupted, with Pryor and Harrison kicking and punching the men and the women, who tried to defend themselves.

The court was told Harrison picked up the wine bladder at one point and used it to smack one of the girls across the face.

Pryor and Harrison then knocked one of the men to the ground and kicked him repeatedly.

The group managed to escape and took refuge in a nearby pub.

They suffered bruising and cuts to their faces and bodies.

Harrison and Pryor pleaded guilty to four counts each of assault occasioning bodily harm in company.Pryor also pleaded guilty to one count of common assault.

Mix it up Day - USA

It was Mix It up day in the States yesterday an attempt to break down divisions between racial and social groups, including subcultural ones. It is a long standing idea in the States starting in 2002. Now more than 10,000 schools are involved.

ABC News 4 Charleston - Mixing Up Racial And Social Divides At Hanahan Middle School
Tuesday November 13, 2007 5:40pm Reporter: Renee Williams

Hanahan, S. Carolina - Hanahan Middle School participates in Mix It Up at Lunch Day, a national social experiment aimed at teaching students tolerance.

Think back, way back to your middle school lunch time. You’re sitting with the same friends, day in and day out and being a part of your group. Now imagine this- taking all of that and turning it upside down.

“Students are going to come in. They're going to take the initiative to sit with someone they don't know well,” Elizabeth Scarbrough says.

She’s the one who organized the school’s Mix it Up at Lunch Day. In other words, they’re mixing it up and changing who they talk to everyday. The students are also making new friends while breaking up old cliques.

“Some kids are left out they don't have many friends and then you have some groups who are friends with everybody,” eighth grader Nick Zerbst says.

Mix it Up at Lunch aims to break the harsh social divide of middle school.
The experiment tries to melt the jocks with the goths and the popular kids.
It’s not always easy to just strike up a conversation with someone you don't know. To help break the ice, the kids came up with questions to ask each other like do you like Clemson or Carolina or do you play sports? Even with the ice breakers the nerves are obvious.

“People are trying to be popular. People feel left out they can't really make friends because they're all shy,” adds eighth grader Kenneth Spear.

Whether they’re shy or not, more than 200 students pledged to give it a try. “Here's the 6th grade doing it. It’s really working well. Maybe someone in a higher social status can bring them up,” Zerbst says.

Middle school kids typically divide themselves along gender, racial and economic lines. They learn those divides early on. So these kids are pledging and promising to cross age old boundaries, if only for one day. “These prejudices and these cliques actually start to form at age three to its very important that we catch them at the middle school age,” adds Scarbrough.

SPLCenter.org: Millions take part in fourth annual Mix It UpDecember 2005

Fourth- and 5th-graders in Sweetwater, Texas, embrace the spirit of Mix It Up.
(Bruno at Holly Kuper Photography)
SWEETWATER, Texas -- When 350 intermediate students Mixed It Up here, spirits rose as high as their red, white and blue helium balloons

"That's what I love about 4th- and 5th-graders," said school counselor and Mix It Up at Lunch Day facilitator Melissa Howard. "They are still so into everything."

In 2005, the number of participants also rose -- dramatically. Across the nation on November 15, and estimated four million students at 9,000 schools took part in the fourth annual Mix It Up at Lunch Day. That's a 50 percent increase from 2004, when 4 million students took part nationwide.

Mix It Up, part of the Center's Teaching Tolerance program, asks students to swap seats in the school cafeteria -- one of the most self-segregating settings in the nation. Football players sit with football players; cheerleaders, with cheerleaders. Band members at the table in the corner; Goths at one table; Spanish-speaking students at another.

Consider how a high school senior from Phoenix described her school cafeteria on this year's Mix It Up at Lunch Day: "That section over there is where the jocks usually sit, and this part by the benches is where the skaters are, and then the gangs are all along the walls."

A 9th-grader from Oregon took part in a discussion about school cliques on Mix It Up at Lunch Day and came away with a deeper understanding.

"I learned they (various school cliques) don't really talk to each other," she said. "It's important to get groups to mingle. In the real world, you have to mingle whether you want to or not."

On Mix It Up Day, clearly, some do not. In Philadelphia, one high school student called it "annoying." In Florida, one student called it "childish," labeling participants "losers."

"The resistance is a clear sign of why the program is so important," said Tafeni English, director of the Mix It Up program. "Mix It Up is about social boundaries, and those boundaries don't dissolve in a single day or a single moment. But every time we get some students talking and thinking about the boundaries, we're taking steps in the right direction."...

POEM: Vegetable Soup

April 19, 2006 -- Two students at King George High School in Virginia write about the various social cliques in their school.

by Katie Newton and Laura McKinnon


King George High School is full of cliques

"The Wall," the Goths and the hot chicks.

It's hard enough to be a teen

Without having to deal with these kids - they're mean!

First of all, you've got "The Wall"

A sea of darkness, always having a ball.

Getting their kicks from picking on us

They laugh and they point, and they even cuss.

I know the teachers aren't hearing impaired

But they won't say anything 'cause they're too scared.

The Goths are the next crowd; they stay to themselves

Some dress like vampires, and some like dark elves.

They hate their lives, and the world, and us,

They won't be happy until their wounds seep pus.

The hot chicks are last because they're the worst

If you're not skinny and blonde consider yourself cursed.

Malibu Barbies with their fake tans

Always succeeding in stealing our "mans."

I want to break free

And then there are ones like me.

I have a friend in every group,

Like a giant pot of vegetable soup.

Carrots, peas and noodles, too,

I like being vegetable soup.

What kind of soup are you?

Some interesting comments from kids involved in the past. Lots more here:

Don't hate what you don't understand
Keala

Every one knows how the "goths" and the "preps" have hated each other for so many years now. I am considered a goth at my school, but I have friends from virtually every clique. I hate how people think if you are a certain way, you have to be friends with just that group! I dislike how the jocks make fun of my friends and how they torment us because we have an opinion. Most people think "goths" are suicidal, and that they worship Satan. Satanists worship Satan not "goths." I judge people but it's because when they hang out with others they become like that friend. I just hate how everyone hates "goths." Just because we are different doesn't mean you have to hate us. A great man once said "To be great is to be misunderstood" (Ralph Waldo Emerson) just as being different is to be great!

Another way to Mix It Up
Lindsey
It is true there are many cliques at our school, like the so-called 'gangster table' or the 'nerd table', but our lunch is only 25 minutes long, so one day would not create friendships. If it were my idea I would have it happen at least one Tuesday a month because once a year really wouldn't cut it, if you think about it. If it was held every Tuesday, then you would be forced to talk to them or exclude yourself, which shouldn't happen by the way. But instead of sitting at a new table every Tuesday, you could sit at the same color table and create friendships with those people, and after like 3 months they switch everyone, something like that.

Mix doesn't work
Bob
I HATE MIX IT UP DAY! ITS STUPID AND IT NEVER WORKS!

It was hard, but I did it
Jackie
Today at my school we had Mix It Up Day. It was very fun because we got to meet new people! Usually, I sit with my best friend, Marilyn. We always sit at the same table. It was very hard to do this but I did it. I am proud that I was brave enough to sit with totally different people whom I didn't know. Thank you for making this day exist!

Being judged sucks
Kim
In my school, people judge you by one thing: where you shop and what you wear. It's not, oh, you are so nice, or eh, you're really mean to everyone, or, you annoy me on purpose, it's that you shop here. I for one, shop at Hot Topic, a store that has been deemed rather "Gothic," but yet, has more leather alternatives than places like Wet Seal and Mervyn's, and most of the makeup in there has not been tested on animals. I am a vegetarian, in case you were wondering why I am talking about that sort of thing. People think I'm Gothic just because I shop there.

Most cliques in my school, really aren't defined by a name, it's just certain people. There's the normal people, who are more often than not popular; the freaks, who are just plain rude to everyone; the loser/skaters who made do good in school, but half of them are just, well, rather, odd; there are the skaters, the people that I hang out with some; the preps, the people who will do anything to make themselves look perfect; the potheads, people who do drugs; the sugar junkies, people who are just plain crazy; there's the jocks, who are obsessed with any kind of sport; fashionistas, people who love clothes; and then, there's what I've been defined as, a Gothic. Really though, I am a punk rock enviro skater. These cliques, aren't people I have judged. It's just where they fall in my school according to what they wear and how they act. I wear bondage pants (the big pants that have D-rings and straps on them) and because of that I'm Gothic. If you noticed, I put nothing down on Environmentally Conscious people, that's because I'm really the only one who cares about that in my school. I'm just me, and being judged differently sucks. It sucks hard.

Don't make us do it again
Damien
I'm using this little thing to tell you what I think about Mix It Up. I think its a waste of time and is not going to do anything but cause more problems. NO student I have talked to bout this said it was a good idea. There is talk of skipping lunch to avoid having to participate and also talk of deliberate defiance. I am one of the students who will NOT participate. I won't be forced to sit with people I don't like. I don't like people, not because of their differences, but because of their personality. If I was someone who sat by myself at lunch I wouldn't want people to sit with me because they had to, rather because they want to. I know I speak for a good 75% of my school when I say this is lame... don't make us do it again.

Lowest social group
Brittany
Mix It Up Day was ok for some students, but let me tell you, Mix It Up Day at Lunch did not go so well for me. I tried sitting with the "preppy" kids. But they just made fun of me and told me to go away. It doesn't matter how much you think it's a good thing, when a "goth" sits with a "prep" it doesn't go over very smoothly. It was a success for the older kids to sit with freshman and everything - kids sitting with other kids that aren't really different than them. But this was just... yeah. When the lowest social group sat with the highest at my school, it was not a good lunch.

PeaceJam brings food to Mix
Cornelia

I go to school at Tohatchi High School in New Mexico. I am in 11th grade. My group, PeaceJam, brought food for the people to eat in the classrooms. The students said it was nice to meet different students at our school. We got all the athletes, skaters and Goths to sit with the people they don't know. We had a good time with the students. But some of the students said they were shy because they don't know the students they were sitting by.

Mix was awesome
Kileigh

Mix-it-up-at-lunch day was awesome at my school. We each got a buddy to walk around with, and to hang out with in different groups. It was so fun. Everyone crossed the boundaries of preps, jocks, Goths, geeks, African Americans and those types of things. I met new people and have so many new friends now that I will never forget. I met some awesome people I would never have had the guts to go up to, and hang out with, on a normal day. It makes school such a better atmosphere when you know more people. I learned that all these people are so cool in their own ways and they all have their own types of fun. I hope this day becomes a tradition for my school district. I'll never forget this day! Thanks so much for the great idea!!

Racism and Religious Bigotry
By J.S.

I am a daughter of a United States Marine and because of that I have moved around the country a lot. I have seen and experienced many different things.

I have experienced racism, not from my white classmates, but from my black classmates. I have seen people blamed for things that are not in their control like a Wiccan at my school, who is harassed not only by kids, but in less obvious ways by teachers.

Right now my worst battle is not with anyone I know from school. It's from my mom. She thinks some of my friends are devil-worshippers just because they are goth, and when I told her some of them are actually Christians, she acted surprised!

When I told her that goths are actually some of the most tolerant and peaceful people I know because they don't care what religion, color, sexual orientation you are, she told me to shut up.

How's that for tolerance?

By C.

In my school there aren't many different groups such as freaks, geeks and wannabees, but there are some such as myself, a goth, and preps and the "in betweens" who really don't care. But even though there aren't that many groups there are A LOT of coflicts between us.

For example, when everyone found out I was a goth some preppies wanted to fight me that used to be my friends. I'm the only goth in my school and it's not surprising considering it's unfortunately a Catholic school. The reason that I go there is because I live with my aunt and uncle.

People are getting used to the idea, but I'm still hated by many people but I learn to ignore it!!!!

I'm a Pagan
By M.

I'm a Pagan. I live in a small town in Wisconsin. Everyone in my high school knows I'm pagan. At least the people who know who I am do.

I've gotten a lot of guff for being the religion that I am. I've been called devil worshiper, blair witch, Mrs. Cleo, etc... I've had people walk around me singing hymns from the Bible just to make me angry.

I believe they make fun of me simply because they are afraid of what they believe i stand for. None of them actually took the time or effort to understand what my beliefs were. I can't even count the times I've told the same people that I can't worship the devil when I don't believe he exists.

I try to explain to them what I am, but it just goes in one ear and out the other. All I want is to go to school not having to wonder what new name they're going to come up with, or what new plan they have to try and humiliate me with.

I don't think asking for the ability to go to school without having to defend my religion to everyone I meet is too much to ask, do you? I just want to make some people aware that pagans aren't bad, sure we have some people calling themselves witches who give us a bad name, but if you talk to a pagan -- a true pagan -- you'll find out otherwise. As our creed states "an it harm none, do what thou will." Thank you for reading my story, I hope you come away with a different point of view.

Don't judge lunchmates by their appearance
Amber

Everyday is a new experience for me! I used to sit at the same old lunch table day after day, but now it's a whole new change! I sit with a girl I met in named Kiritie, who now I am really close with. It's a Goth table with lots of unique people — very friendly — and I feel happy to sit and make new friends. I always look forward to sitting there. They make me feel at home! It's not all what you look like on the outside, it's what you have on the inside that counts. So don't just judge people and not consider sitting with them just because of the way they look and dress.

More details here at website which organises it.

Not Like Everyone Else - TV movie

This interesting sounding film highlights some of the problems faced by high school people bullying others,

Not Like Everyone Else
Randee Dawn

June 30, 2006

9 p.m. Monday, July 10 Lifetime There's a lot going on in Lifetime's new original movie, "Not Like Everyone Else," about the real-life struggle of Brandi Blackbear (Alia Shawkat), an Oklahoma teen expelled from school in 1999 for practicing witchcraft, who enlisted the ACLU to bring suit. In part it is a nightmare about teachers policing students; in part it is about civil rights; in part it is about "Mean Girls"/"Heathers" bullying outsiders/freethinkers; and in part it is a father-daughter reconciliation. But since it's a Lifetime movie, it really has to be about a woman standing up for her rights -- possibly the least relevant angle of this busy yet inert film. Executive produced by Lifetime regulars Michael Jaffe and Howard Braunstein, "Everyone Else" has moments. Brandi's mom (the delightful, earthy Illeana Douglas) accepts her Gothic, budding horror-writer daughter, and judicious use of handheld cameras lend scenes a documentary freshness. But "Everyone Else" fails to find its focus, and flat acting and tin-eared dialogue turn those scenes into an extended "Unsolved Mysteries" re-enactment. Blackbear's story -- which exposed the draconian measures visited on teens post-Columbine -- has a larger message to impart about jumping to conclusions in the skittish wake of tragedy. But next time, filmmakers should let Brandi write this particular horror story herself.

Youths in North Wales tried for goth attacks

Teenagers dealt with over assaults - North Wales News - News - Daily Post North Wales

Nov 7 2007 by Aaron Boland, Daily Post

SIX teenagers appeared in court yesterday for their roles in a series of assaults in Colwyn Bay.

A youth court at Llandudno heard how the darkly-clothed “Goths” – boys and girls aged 14 and 15 – were walking along Abergele Road at Old Colwyn last April when four “hoodies” approached. A boy was kicked and punched and a friend also hit.

Prosecutor Nita Dowell said five days later a man living in Lawson Road, Colwyn Bay, had been threatened with violence by a group of boys as he returned home.

The same month one of the defendants, a boy of 16, had been involved in a disturbance in Station Road, Colwyn Bay, where a man was punched. There was further trouble in Greenfield Road when a group of youths including him and a second defendant allegedly hurled bricks towards a man.

The 16-year-old was also involved in an assault near the skate park in Eirias Park when a youngster was set upon. He received a twelve-month referral order and must pay £100 compensation to this victim, and £60 costs. He admitted four counts of threatening behaviour and a fifth of common assault.

In May a youth was hit with a stick and bitten by an assailant near the skate park after five youths approached him. Two boys of 15 admitted assault causing actual bodily harm although they were not the main aggressors.

One of them also admitted two counts of threatening behaviour. They received referral orders and must pay £60 costs. The second boy was ordered to pay £100 compensation. Two others, aged 15, who admitted threatening behaviour, received referral orders and must pay £60 costs.

Another 15-year-old boy, who pleaded guilty to threatening behaviour, receiving a stolen fire extinguisher and criminal damage, was bailed for reports with a community-based penalty indicated.

Interesting case in that it seems to follow a pattern to the other attacks on subcultural groups. Putting aside the "chav"/hoodie sterotype aside we seem to have a pattern of people who are already involved in a range of criminal behaviour and skate parks are a favoured target area for them. Two of the suspects in the Sophie case were refused bail because of their background for example.

Goths raise money for lifeboats

Goths push the boat out - Bexhill Today - Back to Home Page: A masked 'gothic' ball was held to celebrate one year of business and to raise money for Eastbourne RNLI. Fox Xnoubis, 37, and Angel Darkside, 43, of The Darkside, a shop offering gothic clothing and accessories in Terminus Road, gave customers a party to celebrate a year of trading. It was held at the Kingfisher Tavern, Langney, and the proceeds were donated to Eastbourne RNLI.
05 November 2007 6:20 AM"

Tasmanian goth and emos attacked

THREE Hobart victims of bullies have blamed subculture rivalry for attacks on them and fear there may be a turf war. The trio were all assaulted last Thursday in three separate incidents around the city centre. Nathan, 18, was bashed unconscious in the Hobart bus mall on Thursday afternoon and collapsed to the ground covered in blood. Soon after, Michael, 15, was punched in the face and then pushed up against a bus near Franklin Square. Then Sebastian, 18, was hit on the back of the head by a group outside the Commonwealth Bank in Liverpool St. The three have said the bullies are a group of 'bogans' who target those from the alternative scene, such as 'emos' and 'goths'. " Read more...

Bashing victims' fears of turf war | Mercury - The Voice of Tasmania: "Bashing victims' fears of turf war Article from: The Mercury MARIA RAE November 07, 2007

Find out about Bogans (roughly UK townies/chavs without the track suits) here:

Bogan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Emo under attack or attacking itself?

The same paper which told us Emos are under attack in Tasmania a few days ago said back in May that Emo is connected to self harm.

The Mercury: Fears for teens :

"HOBART teenagers are being drawn to a youth subculture which actively promotes self-harm. The Emo movement, which grew out of the punk movement in the 1980s, recently hit the national news when two Victorian girls who had links to the subculture committed suicide. The movement also made the headlines in March when South Australian police investigating the murder of 15-year-old Carly Ryan uncovered a trail of internet-based Emo message boards and websites involving bondage, suicide and drug use. Tasmanian Catholic Schools Parents and Friends Federation president Bill Button said parents were very concerned about Emo culture. 'I reckon the Emo culture is more prevalent than people realise or want to face and is becoming even more prevalent because of the internet,' Mr Button said. 'Parents are concerned because all of a sudden their child, if they have access to a computer, can turn into an Emo.' Department of Health and Human Services Community Resilience and Mental Health Promotion project officer Dion Butler said the popularity of the subculture was growing in Hobart.

But it is not unique to Hobart," Mr Butler said.

"It is also very strong on the mainland where often the term Emo is seen as an insult.

"Emo stands for very emotional, and so, Emos are seen by some to be very depressed individuals with a mental-health issue.

"The reality is that apart from the self-harm issue the Emo subculture is no different from any other youth subculture and is really about young people finding a place to belong," Mr Butler said.

"Indeed it can be argued that all youth subcultures have both positive and negative effects. For example, the sports culture is seen to be positive for youth, but to an extent it encourages drinking."

Mr Butler said the only real concern was the self-harm issue.

"I understand that some Emo groups require youth to cut themselves as an initiation -- if they don't cut, they can't join," Mr Butler said.

"However, self-harm is not an exclusive Emo practice. An alarming number of teenagers engage in it, but it does appear that teenagers who identify as being Emo are more likely to engage in self-harm because of the Emo culture."

Queensland psychiatrist Graham Martin, who started researching the Emo movement when a relative started dressing in their style, agreed there were positive and negative aspects to the subculture.

"We know that young people who are resilient and connected to a group are largely protected from behaviours like self-harm and suicide," Dr Martin said.

"So the fact young people are connected to some sort of group is positive. My concern is that this subculture is about the joining together of disaffected young people who are often angry and distressed about their lives. They are then in a position where they rely only on that group and don't seem to reach out to other avenues for help."

Dr Martin said his research, particularly online, had blown him away.

"What I found was an incredible mix of extraordinary information," he said.

"There was material that was fun, material that was very intellectual and material that was absolutely horrible -- like pictures of knives and wrists with dotted lines drawn on them."

Dr Martin said he feared young people who identified with the Emo subculture were at greater risk of self-harm.

"A UK study on the Goth subculture found there was a significantly increased risk for self-harm within members of this group.

"Emos become enraged with people who suggest they are similar to Goths -- they say the distinction is that Emos hate themselves and Goths hate everyone -- but, as the reported incidence of cutting behaviours is said to be a key feature of Emo culture, the risk appears to be there."

Dr Martin said parents should not panic. "Parents should see it as a sign their child feels they can no longer talk to them and make an effort to resolve that by really listening to what their child wants to say."

Dr Martin said the community should also be concerned that growing numbers of young people felt alienated from society.

"We have to provide an environment which lets these young people talk and be heard before this gets out of hand."

Fears for teens | Mercury - The Voice of Tasmania: "May 20, 2007 12:00am

Of course it brings up the infamous British Medical Journal article which did not prove "there was a significantly increased risk for self-harm within members of this group.[ie goths]"

It proved that in a small sample of Glasgow goth teenagers more had indulged in self harm at some point in their lives than other people in the survey. Most of them did it before they became goths. So you can argue that goth actually stops self harm. See Goth stops self harm

Plus half the stuff this expert looked at online was probably a joke. I mean a statement like "they say the distinction is that Emos hate themselves and Goths hate everyone" is just nonsense. I mean there are a number of silly anti-emo websites which claim they spend time cutting themselves constantly many are not by emos. It is just a stereotype, one that some emos promote themselves as well: either because they have a sense of humour and are doing it with a satirical intent or because they take themselves too seriously and use self harm as a fashion statement. This it must be stressed is a minority, for the majority emo is about community, music and clothes and they are sick of the connection to self harm.

As noted in earlier posts professionals have consistently noted self-harm problems cannot be confined to any particular sub culture. If it was then it would be easily solved in fact it can affect any person and their clothing style is irrelevant.

The real danger is in articles like this is they it can be used as justification by thugs. If you look at anti-emo rants online most of them claim emos need to be stamped out because they self-harm. The logic is brilliant: Emos self harm therefore you have a right to harm them.
Exactly the same route is being followed as what happened after Columbine which intensified the hassle goth and metal teens faced.

It seems the murder of Carly Ryan seems to have sparked off a whole moral panic in Australia. Needs further investigation.

Policing Whitby

There are already concerns with policing in Whitby and this weekend saw a large increase in police presence but still a goth was assaulted as mrntioned here:

Goth's ears ripped off by thugs - Have YOUR say on this story - Whitby Today

The police were watching large groups of goths who were gathered harmlessly rather than doing anything useful like patrolling more widely where lone goths might be attacked.

Concerns on goth policing
# 02 November 2007
# Source: Whitby Gazette Friday
By Staff Copy
http://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/goth/Concerns-on-goth-policing.3424708.jp

FEARS have been raised the goths could be "driven out of town" due to a heightened police presence and restrictions over capacity over the weekend, despite no arrests being made.
During the weekend the police were called to just two incidents – the first for a minor dispute at Whitby Pavilion on Saturday afternoon and another at the same venue later that evening when a reveller was ejected for being drunk and disorderly.

And the Resolution Hotel had to stop serving alcohol for half an hour because of the number of people in there. But The Met manager, Karen Turnbull, said on Sunday night three police vans, one with CCTV equipment, were waiting outside at kicking out time despite there being no trouble.

She said: “I think it was totally unnecessary. Obviously we need the police but we keep to our capacity of one in and one out and we have door staff on. I wish I could have the goths every weekend. I think the presence of the police was ridiculous – we have more problems at weddings. They bring so much money going to drive them away if they are not careful.

“I think it’s such a shame. The Goths are such lovely people.

In all the time I’ve been here and that’s five years we’ve never had a bit of bother.”

And Kate Sutton a member of a film crew covering Goth Weekend for www.penkat.com also criticised the policing of the event when on Saturday night the Resolution Hotel - one of the main venues which hosts Goth bands and events - was told to stop serving alcohol at around 10.30pm on the grounds that it was overcrowded.

But she said it was no busier than any pub on a Friday or Saturday night and the Goths cannot do right for wrong with them being told to keep inside, due to problems with people spilling into Flowergate. She said Scarborough Council are trying to drive the Goths out and do not appear to want to keep the event, which brings in hundreds of thousands of pounds to the local economy, in Whitby.

Whitby Goth Weekend promoter, Sam Hoyle said the police presence is purely a numbers game and said he hopes to work more closely with them in the future. He said there was definitely a stronger police presence than in previous years which probably wasn’t necessary but he understood they have to do things “by the book.”

“It’s quite intimidating to the type of customer we attract, although not to me personally,” said Mr Hoyle. I’ve certainly not seen extra police drafted in for a Goth weekend in the past. If they feel they need more police that’s completely down to them.”

Andy Skelton, Scarborough Council's head of environmental health services said during their visit to the Res by police, firefighters and council officers it was noted that the premises were overcrowded, possibly to a dangerous extent.

“The licensee, Mr Dale, sought advice from the senior fire officer attending and voluntarily determined that he would cease to serve alcohol and
that was an end to the matter,” he said.

Sergeant Steve Pearse of Whitby police said: “"There was in increased police presence and a lot of officers on patrol, simply because of the increase in the number of people in the town over the weekend. But I would again like to emphasise the exemplary conduct of all the visitors to Whitby. The Goth weekend passed by peacefully and, as is often the case, everybody seemed to enjoy themselves. I would like to thank the Goths again for their responsible and respectful attitude and their general good behaviour. I look forward to welcoming them back next time."

Whitby Goth Weekend organisers are introducing a new wristband system this April after the building reached its full capacity, despite tickets not selling out.

People on the guest list were accomodated in a separate function room downstairs so everyone could be allowed entry.

If those Police were in Whitby they were off the streets in Scarborough/Middlesborough or somewhere else where they were actually needed or they were being paid overtime. Particularly ironic as North Yorkshire police are facing a massive budget cut:

MP to fight £10 million police 'cut' - Scarborough Today

Bobbies lose perk of their free boots - Scarborough Today

In fact they are so strapped for cash they can’t afford to provide boots for their officers. Perhaps a goth boot fund for the police should be organized to donate used DMs/New Rocks… at least then the three van loads of police will fit in a bit better.. of course there are other things they could be doing see recent crimes in Scarborough like this:

Lead theft: organised gang fear - COMMENT ON THIS STORY

Whitby Jo had some very interesting comments on this issue:

It was a bit of a strange one though

We had our first ever Gothic Shoplifters (say it in the manner of Peter Kay a la Garlic Bread) which Whitby police sent TWO transit vans to the Spa for (must have been a quiet afternoon)

We had TWO episodes of Goth violence at the Spa on Saturday night
The first involving someone who couldn:t get in (he had hoped to be on a bands guest list but wasnt) and threw a bottle through the window by the cloakroom
The second being a very intoxicated person (in a throwing up inside the venue kind of way) getting very upset on being asked to leave who consequently assaulted three bouncers and got himself arrested

And not forgetting what i can only describe as slightly heavy handed tactics by the licencing dept of Scarborough Council on Flowergate with Uncle Len at the Elsinore and at the Little A I appreciate there are laws to be adhered to and even why those laws are in place but it seems a little strange after thirteen years that they are enforcing capacity limits on the two pubs where it all started

I do hope that the same treatment will be given to the pubs and venues in town during the summer season

We asked for a meeting between the council and police about this matter and the meeting and subsequent decisions were all made without the input of either ourselves or the landlords concerned apparentely it would have been a "waste of time" to invite us!!!!!

This article from the Gazette seems to indicate it will hopefully be better by next year:

And a meeting is planned in the next couple of weeks with licensing officers, police and the fire service, licensees, highways and the borough council to work towards a solution for the problems in Flowergate where in the past people have gathered
outside the pubs to drink in the streets.

Last weekend doorstaff were on hand at the Resolution Hotel, the Elsinore and Little Angel who restricted the number of people allowed into premises to prevent them exceeding their capacity. Mr Hoyle said they had tried to seek a road closure for the latest event but he said the council had dragged its feet.

"Next April will see big changes and there willl be no repeat of the situation in Flowergate.

"Although it doesn't actually affect us the Elsinore and the Little Angel are the original home of Whitby Gothic Weekend and we feel we owe them for helping us get to where we are today. If it wasn't for them it would have fallen away a long time ago.

"We are doing our best to work towards a solution for April."

This increasing policing and admin hassle for the event has been discussed before see the post :

Whitby policing and street blockage April onwards

Goth's ears ripped off by thugs - Have YOUR say on this story - Whitby Today

Goth's ears ripped off by thugs - Have YOUR say on this story - Whitby Today:

* Published Date: 02 November 2007
* Source: Whitby Gazette Friday
* Location: Whitby

By Alex Fredman

A GOTH dressed as a vampire who had been raising cash for charity over goth weekend has been assaulted by a mob of up to seven men on the West Cliff.
Stuart Dearing (33) from Leeds had been to the Monster Lab at Whitby's Resolution Hotel and had been made up to look like Nosferatu, a vampire immortalised in a 1920s film.

The event was being held to raise cash for a memorial bench and plaque in memory of goth, Sophie Lancaster (20) from Lancashire who died after being attacked by a gang of yobs in August in Bacup. Her boyfriend Robert Maltby (21) suffered serious injuries.

Stuart had been walking along John Street at 7.45pm on Saturday and was returning to his guest house in Normanby Terrace before heading up to the Pavilion.

Earlier in the day, wearing his prosthetic make-up, Stuart had been collecting money for a charity for deaf and blind people. He said he stepped to the side of the men, who were in their early twenties, to pass them, but the gang started swearing at him. They ripped the bald cap and prosthetic false ears he was wearing which had been glued onto his head, tore them into pieces, stamped on them, pushed him about and swore at him.

"It was like a pack of wolves," said Stuart. "It's just senseless. They were laughing their heads off. It did hurt a little bit but its more my pride that was hurt."

Stuart, who has been coming to Whitby Gothic Weekend
for 10 years, reported the incident to police the next day but was shocked at their response. There was no CCTV and no witnesses. The police said they can't do anything. I've never experienced anything like this but it's not going to ruin it for me."

Promoter of Whitby Goth Weekend Sam Hoyle said he was shocked and saddened at the mindless attack.

To comment on this story, follow the instructions to register as a user and make a comment.
"It's such a shame there's a small minded attitude still. I think it's a one-off."

Sgt Steve Pearse of Whitby Police said: "It is disappointing as a police officer and also as a local resident that, what would appear to be local people, have reacted to a visitor in this way. We will treat the incident with all the seriousness it deserves and I would ask anybody who can shed any light on this matter to contact (0845) 6060247."

Emo/Goth suicide/selfharm sterotype incorrect

The idea of the gloomy teen dressed in black cutting herself is an ongoing stereotype but a US report from a conference of experts dismisses this as a deceptive idea likely to distract people from the real problem:

Parents and school staff often have a perception of self-injury that is connected to listening to gloomy music and wearing black. The perception says if you skateboard or listen to emo band Dashboard Confessional, you are more likely to slice your arms with scissors.

If only it were that simple.

Out of context, singing along to Gerard Way, of rock group My Chemical Romance, and his "songs that make you slit your wrists," can seem new and troubling to parents who were never fans of Pink Floyd, Nick Drake, or the blues.

But saying self-injury can be contained within one clique of kids, one group of fans of one type of music, galls those who have been there. "The quiet ones? You can't tell," said the Mayfield girl. "It's hard to tell who's doing it or not."

Nor does the perception, however prevalent, hold water, say the experts. Those who self-injure can -- are -- also the jazz-band members, pre-mission Mormons, theater kids and cheerleaders. Poland said those who self-injure tend to be "likable, functional and intelligent kids, but they break down under stress."

Self mutilation: Some teens hurt themselves to deal with emotional pain

Pity those who made the Channel News telecommunications news report on a US survey announced this summer on security dangers on the internet for children didn't know this. Besides paedophiles and viruses the report on the survey warned parents that increasing numbers of children were visiting "gothic" websites with supposedly disastrous consequences. The report supposedly claimed that Emo is in fact a sub branch of Goth with rather than being entirely separate, as most goths and emos claim see quotes below:

Webroot online security report 2007 19/07/07

Webroot Software says its new research shows a disconnect between parents and their children regarding Internet usage.
The report which corroborates existing concerns regarding the online activities of children ages 5 to 17, uncovers a number of discrepancies among children's self-reported online activities versus what parents believe them to be. The report further discusses potential legal implications and security risks parents may face due to their children's online behaviour and best practices for ensuring a safe online experience for children...

* More and more young people are turning to websites celebrating 'gothics' and promoting self-harm - the most recent popular websites attracting a new cult of young gothics - the 'Emo' - for Emotional Goths.

The full report can be downloaded here:
http://www.webroot.com/resources/sois/excerpt.html

Yet the actual report doesn't mention anything about emos or goths at all.