Alterophobia

Friday, October 26, 2007

"Goth-style makeup" causes school problem

A few days after an article argued for greater tolerance of subcultures in Maine this hits the Bangor Daily News.

Students sent home from school for wearing Goth-style makeup: "Johanna Stacey, 14, Robert Scribner, 16, and Erik Jordan, 16, said they were not violating the school’s dress code which does not specifically address makeup. But Principal Jim Miller said the makeup was inappropriate and the students 'made a choice to leave' when they refused to wash it off. 'Students need to understand that this is not the mall; this is not a dance; this is not a concert. This is school. Their attire needs to be appropriate,' he said. Stacey had drawn a spider’s web under one eye and a black curl under another; Scribner and Jordan had black lines under their eyes. The students described themselves as 'Goth punk,' saying the style includes black clothing, long black coats, face makeup, dark or colored hair, and piercings. Alicia Stacey, Johanna’s mother, questioned why the three students were sent home for wearing makeup when other students wear 'pretty much what they want to wear. What damage can makeup do?'"

It was followed up by this article:
School standards shouldn't have to tolerate Goth makeup

Schools do have a right to control what students wear but it must be fair and equal and not signal out particular groups. The makeup these kids wore was minimal. The school should either ban all makeup or none. It seems odd that a preppy student could wear as much makeup as they like but as soon as you use a little black makeup it is stamped on. I wonder if those involved were inspired by what happened in Florida see earlier post: School dress Code

Thursday, October 25, 2007

Pair Released Over Goth Attack (from Burnley and Pendle Citizen)

Pair Released Over Goth Attack (from Burnley and Pendle Citizen): "TWO teenagers who were arrested for violent disorder offences over an alleged attack on youths dressed as goths' and moshers' have been released on bail."

Brutal beating of Goth highlights hatred towards subcultures - Soap Box

Brutal beating of Goth highlights hatred towards subcultures - Soap Box: "Beating people to death because they dress differently is nothing but hate-driven intolerance. The sad thing is the fact that there is most likely no motivation behind these attacks except for misguided ignorance. People target Goths because they know nothing about the subculture except for horribly incorrect stereotypes. Even worse, people may target Goths simply because they look different..."

Nice article in Maine University paper

Cop Attacks Poppunker - antiMUSIC News

Poppunk band Amber Pacific get into trouble for signing stuff for fans.

Cop Attacks Poppunker - antiMUSIC News: "We moved about 20 feet down so we weren't near the door anymore. We continued to sign, and then that same cop came back a minute later, very agitated, and said ' Did you not hear what I said? I told you guys to move!' He then very angrily yelled at the kids waiting ' get out of here!' We felt maybe we could just move behind the Red Jumpsuit Apparatus' trailer, where we couldn't be blocking the sidewalk. As we did so, The officer was following us the whole time, and Will told everyone ' Ok, let's move down here where there aren't rude cops' Apparently, that touched a nerve. He yells at Will, word for word, 'What the fuck did you say, you little faggot douchebag???' Will spins around, and asks him ' What did you call me???' Here's where it gets weird though. The cop grabs Dango, who hadn't said a word, and yells at him ' DO NOT RESIST!' several times, really loudly, as he spins him around and throws handcuffs on him. "

You have to start somewhere

Sophie's Mother in new appeal in the Lancashire Telegraph:

Mrs Lancaster said: "The campaign is about trying to get away from blaming people and getting the conversation going between different groups of young people and adults too.

"I want people to think twice about labelling people because of the way they dress or the music they listen to - adults are just as guilty of that as young people and it does create conflict. We have a long way to go but we have managed a lot already.

I was amazed at the response in support of the teenagers in Blackburn, agreeing that they are just ordinary people. And I was delighted with how seriously the police and councillors in Burnley have taken the attacks there. I know some people might think this campaign is just idealism, but you have to start somewhere. Sophie would never have wanted me to be sitting at home grieving and not doing anything because that's not what I am and it's not what she was. She was a lovely, kind, caring girl. What happened to her was senseless but I have got to make sense of it by doing as much as I can to stop it happening again."

Wednesday, October 24, 2007

Bristol College Green - Teenagers banned

We have mentioned before the importance of areas for alternative teenagers to hang out in and the tendency for authorities to try and harass and destroy this. A perfect example of this is the College Green saga in Bristol where this summer the Council imposed a group dispersal order arousing much protest from local goths, emos and skaters. On Saturday 21st July, a protest took place against the dispersal order and around 80 people attended.

Sensible questions were asked by those affected by the order. An example is this letter sent to the Bristol Evening Post by 14 year old Ellie Vowles which sums up the importance of the area for those who use it:

My friends and I do nothing wrong. We cause no trouble. We are generally peaceful, don't drink and don't do drugs or bother people, just like most of the others who go to the area. We are really quite a close community in many ways. Its only a small minority that cause problems and some people go to the green just to pick on those who look different. I do hope that the order itself wont be used to pick on young people who look different too. Lets remember that drinking, drug taking and violence are a regular problem inside and outside of the pubs and clubs in Bristol every weekend and that these are certainly not problems caused by 'skateboarders, goths, grungers and emos'.

There has been and always will be people who are different and look different who want to gather to meet in groups. Because they are identifiably different - say they are black, or gay, or disabled or scarred by accident or have long hair, flares and flowers in their hair, or like to wear black and dye their hair red, or whatever - should not mean that they can be moved on just because they gather in a place. Generally, people should be allowed to be themselves, no matter what people say, though they may be feared, often due to ignorance and misunderstanding. There aren't many safe places, like College Green with its CCTV, in central Bristol for young people to gather and meet.

Read more here:

Be yourself - no matter what they say!

There was a belated response from the politicians as a result. This included a question in Parliament :

Then Bristol West’s Lib Dem MP Stephen Williams pitched in at the end of July with a statement in parliament no less (that was badly misquoted in The Cancer). He told the Minister for Children, Young People and Families, Beverley Hughes in response to her announcement of a 10 year ‘Aim Higher’ strategy for young people:

“I hope that the statement is the welcome start of a departure from some of the language of the Tony Blair era, namely the language of marching children to cash points, the language of dealing with feral youth and the the language of imposing dispersal orders on young people, such as the fatuous dispersal order imposed on skateboarders in my constituency this week.”

Ms Hughes weakly responded: “Many young people suffer from such [anti-social] behaviour and we need to protect them and demonstrate to them that they are part of our consideration.”

More details here:

Is Bristol run by the cops? « The Bristol Blogger

Another local MP addressed the issue too:

Kerry questions College Green dispersal order

Even the local Radical Hisory Sociey got involved having a demo raising some interesting parallels with earlier events:

This summer the police without warning served a 'dispersal order' on College Green and the surrounding area for the period of the school holidays. The order means that if two or more people gather together then, they can be moved on by the Police. Ostensibly, the order was aimed at the skateboarders and other youth who have customarily gathered on College Green for many years. No reasons were given initially for the order, but we can imagine that the effect on tourism would have been sited [6] (College Green is a an historic site, with the Cathedral, Council House etc.) along with the usual complaints of the wealthy and powerful Clifton 'mafia'.

The youth reacted in style with a demonstration or two and an active media campaign protesting against the order [7]. The authorities seemed unable to come up with the real reasons for their actions, except a feeble media campaign which vaguely referred to fighting and drug use. Even a Bristol MP [8] advised the Police to talk to people first before imposing such orders, but they didn't appear to be in the mood to debate with the Bristolians using the area!

We wuz robbed!

If they had engaged in a debate, then the authorities would have found out some important facts. Namely that there was serious resentment already amongst the skateboard community because of the cynical last minute rejection by the Council of the fully-funded plan for a skateboard park next to Castle Park. Of course, within months the whole area had been handed over to property developers [9]. The skateboarders were thus resigned to staying at College Green. That was until the authorities decided to remove that public space as well, by serving the dispersal order.

Despite the current media climate of viewing many young people as 'scum' (or even wanting to 'hug' them), no one is pointing out that they are Citizens like anyone else. Citizens have the right to go into the centre of their city, full stop. The authorities are trying to impede them and their right to free movement. This is wrong. If people commit a crime then the Police can arrest them, but these exclusion orders are a different kettle of fish. They criminalize our citizens and create division, fear and distrust. As one skateboarder put it 'if skateboarding is anti-social, they would have to put dispersal orders everywhere' [10]. It may not be too far into the future that this might be the case.

The history of Brandon Hill gives us an understanding of the use of legal and physical means to control and modify public space in our cities. The lessons are clear, if the customary practices of the population can be impeded or stopped then they will lose their cultural power over the spaces they inhabit. We only have to look at the sanitised and 'class' cleansed park that Brandon Hill has become to see that. There are, however, echoes of the historical resistance of the Brandon Hill mob and the Chartists amongst the Bristol Citizens that are fighting to keep College Green open to all.

Tuesday, October 23, 2007

Hate Crime Petition

The subcultural hate crimes petition is continuing to grow. It now has 1,308 signatures making it currently about number 160 out of 8491 active petitions. It will get an official response from the Prime Minister's office when complete in March. If it continues to grow at this rate it will have around 6000 signatures by then which would put it in the top 40. Interesting that there is still much discussion posted online about this. It is good that it is debated and this shows alternative people do not leap into things without considering them as shown in the strong points raised against the idea in I noted in the Hate Crime and Subcultures - the debate post. I still have some reservations about hate crimes legislation, but it is an idea people need to think through for themselves.

It may be the type of awareness raising and education the SOPHIE campaign is involved in is more useful in the end, but signing will not do any harm and will hopefully raise publicity and importantly awareness from the authorities. Yet there is no hope being too optimistic after all the recent Camden petition with 36,000 signatures had no effect. The real danger however is apathy though suggesting nothing can be done at all. Action needs to be taken and this petition is part of that.

New tactic in hunt for ‘goth’ attackers

In the latest development the Council have condemned the attacks and the police are trying hard to find them. Despite earlier reports claiming this is an isolated incident comments from local alternative folk indicate this is just a more extreme example of an ongoing problem in Burnley.

Gordon Birtwistle, leader of Burnley Council, said: "We live in a diverse society where people can dress how they want.

"I am horrified that people should feel they can disrupt other people's lives by doing this.

"I think the problem is that kids don't respect other people's views or even other people and this problem has to be addressed in homes and schools."

Agony Advice on goths

Some interesting advice columns from the Mirror

Older boy's bad influence - Kids and Family - Your Life - Showbiz - Mirror.co.uk:06/09/2007

"Older boy's bad influence KIDS COLEEN NOLAN My daughter who's 14 has started going out with a 16-year-old lad. She's dyed her hair black, wears black make-up and has become moody and withdrawn. She's been talking about getting piercings in her ears. I'm worried she'll get into drugs. What can I do? Angie O'Connor London

Coleen Says: YOU need to start trying to be a parent. At 14 your daughter is still a child, lives in your house and must stick to your rules... With the clothes and the make up she's obviously testing out the Goth look. Tell her: "I'm letting you wear those clothes because you like them", but if you don't want her to have piercings then that's a no. If she does get it done, punish her. Your daughter needs to know that she can't push it."

IN THE DARK OVER GOTHS
Dr Miriam Stoppard 30/10/2006 Daily Mirror

Dear Miriam,

TEENAGER Rosie Webster (pictured below) went Goth for a while in Coronation Street and my daughter's done the same. She's in with a group who paint their faces white, dye their hair jet black and wear almostblack lipstick. You can hardly see her eyes for kohl. What's got into her?

A year ago she was blonde, bouncy and fun. Now she mopes around and hardly speaks. Should I be worried? She's been anorexic in the past.

Miriam says...GOTHS have a fascination with pain and death and while, for many, it's a passing sign of teenage rebellion, it's not always just posturing. A Glasgow study of 1,000 young people aged 11 to 19 revealed that, of those considering themselves Goths, nearly half had attempted suicide and more than half had self-harmed - far higher figures than normal where around 10 per cent self-harm and six per cent attempt suicide.
It's been suggested Goths emulate their icons or peers but the reverse seems true - most in the survey had begun self-harming long before becoming Goths, which makes you think vulnerable children are attracted to the subculture.
So keep an eye on your daughter and make sure she knows she has your support.

The 2006 Glasgow University Study strikes again.

Marilyn Manson not to blame for violence

Interesting article covering Asa Coon and Manson.

Marilyn Manson not to blame for violence
The Orion, CA -16 Oct 2007

After Columbine, Sen. Joe Lieberman said the problem was music.

Lieberman said violent lyrics from artists such as Marilyn Manson are "helping to create a culture of violence that is increasingly enveloping our children, desensitizing them to consequences and ultimately cheapening the value of human life."

According to one study, music doesn't just affect children. It affects college students, too.

In a series of five experiments involving more than 500 college students, researchers from Iowa State University and the Texas Department of Human Services examined the effects of seven violent songs by seven artists and eight nonviolent songs by seven artists.

The result: students who listened to violent songs were left feeling more aggressive and hostile without provocation or threat. The study's lead researcher said these aggressive thoughts and feelings have implications for real violence.

But, again, it's all up for interpretation.

Paul Friedlander, director of the music industry program at Chico State, said there is no substantial evidence that suggests music has anything to do with violent acts.

If anything, more research says otherwise, he said.

"Research has clearly indicated that there is no correlation to listening to a song and being impelled to do something," Friedlander said. "Otherwise, every time you'd listen to NWA you'd shoot a person; or (with) Doris Day, you'd go out on a field and dance in a field of daisies."

Friedlander has a point, but many suggest that a few people will act violently after listening to violent music. And some will argue that one case is enough.

The Cleveland student was described as a "goth." He had black painted nails and wore all black clothes, including a Manson T-shirt. Manson was the boy's idol, according to several reports. So naturally, just like after Columbine, Manson was targeted. Maybe not directly, but his name was mentioned.

People still blame Manson and other artists for many pointless acts of violence.

Is that fair?

Friedlander, who is also a musician, said the answer is no.

Because if that were the case, "Why not blame Elvis for the sexual revolution of the '60s?" he said. People use music simply to help create their identities, Friedlander said. And that may include how one looks.

"If I'm a certain way, I'm going to listen to a certain kind of music," he said. "If I were to listen to Britney Spears, I'd probably be a teenage girl."

The Manson fan was just a teenage boy. A teenage boy who listened to Manson because he made him feel OK for being an outcast, for being different, for being exactly who he was.

In no way did Manson's lyrics tell the boy to go on a shooting rampage. Other factors influenced the boy. What were they? Sadly, that question will never be answered. [This is not true see other articles on this case the boy had mental problems and was frequently bullied.]

Here are some possibilities, though, something that nobody - except for Manson himself in an interview with Michael Moore - seems to talk about.

The problem isn't music. It's the influence of our country and government, Manson said.

According to the National Education Association's Health Information Network at www.neahin.org, American children are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

That's appalling.

This stat's no better: In 2005, firearms killed zero children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada and 5,285 in the United States, according to the site.

Monday, October 22, 2007

Another radio host shoots his mouth off

Amazing level of nonsense on the Asa Coon killings here it must be Fox News.

Another radio host shoots his mouth off

Thu, Oct. 18, 2007 On Oct. 10, when news accounts reported a shooting at a Cleveland alternative school, Gibson, a Fox News radio and TV host, quickly worked out a program condemning hip-hop music.
Because the school, SuccessTech Academy, which stresses technology and entrepreneurship for high-achieving students, is 85 percent black, Gibson, who is white, surmised that the shooting was the result of the actions of a black student who had listened to too many violent hip-hop lyrics.
After noting with great fanfare that hip-hop's violence was leaving the streets and coming into our schools, he soon had to correct himself.
He admitted that he thought the school shooter was an African-American student who had been influenced by violent lyrics. "Turns out it's a white guy," Gibson said.
A pre-recorded voice that is used in the show asked whether Gibson was wrong. "Gibson's not wrong," he said, speaking about himself in the third person. "Gibson is not wrong."
What? Excuse me. Gibson was wrong.
His whole premise was that the shooting in Cleveland was precipitated by hip-hop music and its effect on black children. Then he learned that the shooter was white. But instead of changing that premise, he trudged on. He continued to blame hip-hop for the shooting in Cleveland, but said that music also is claiming white kids.
"Well, you know, you can't deny it," Gibson continued. "I mean, there's a gazillion of those things out there and the kids are listening on their iPods, and the kids listening on their iPods are not all black kids. Some white kids listen, too."
His sidekick then pointed out that the shooter, 14-year-old Asa H. Coon, was a fan of Marilyn Manson's music.

If it isn't metal, then it must be hip hop music to blame. How about the bullying, difficult home life and the fact he had two handguns rather than music? See this article:

Bullies, mental instability to blame in school shooting - Opinion:

Florida University Beacon 18 Oct 2007: Another factor leading to Coon's predetermining 'snap' would be the fact that he was allowed back to SuccessTech after being removed from his mother's custody in 2006 to live in a Family Services shelter where he tried to commit suicide.

His actions in school grew more troubling after, possibly because he needed to be institutionalized.

Coon received psychological treatment in 2006 but was uncooperative. Committing him to an asylum would have been a more effective course of action.

Knowing all of this information about Coon, the school should have had the foresight to tell that Coon would reciprocate when he was suspended, not only because of his past violent behavior, but because several students Coon confided in told the principal what Coon had said.

But this wouldn't be the first instance of Coon being ignored by the apathetic school: He was constantly bullied and sought after to appear as though he was the cause of a problem, just to 'mess with' Coon.
"I ain't justifying nothing," a friend told CNN affiliate WOIO. "I ain't saying he did the right thing but I am saying he got pushed for a long time and asked them people to help, help, help, help, but nobody helped.' A testimony like that, had Coon not taken his own life, would most definitely been used in Coon's trial, because however horrific, Coon acted in his own defense. The parents of Coon's attackers need to realize their part in this-it's not just the 'loner' who needs to be locked up, sometimes it takes an equally unstable person to bully someone the way Coon was bullied. If Coon hadn't gone through beatings and taunting on a daily basis, would he have been driven to his breaking point? From a logical standpoint, probably not. While Coon is by no stretch of the imagination a sane or stable person, he was a victim of circumstance: his psyche shattered by years of obvious trauma, his classmates shunned and pummeled him, and the one beacon of hope and protection, the SuccessTech Academy, wanted nothing to do with him. How is it that in schools of thousands, one eccentric student can be observed, but in a school of 240, the one with a staggering and visible mental illness goes unnoticed. "

Sunday, October 21, 2007

Attack on four goth/mosher teens in Burnley

In a town 5 miles from Bacup where Sophie Lancaster was murdered and her boy friend put into a coma two months by a mob attack a new vicious attack motivated by wearing alternative fashions occurred on Saturday the 20th of October. A group of 4 people were attacked by up to 12 youths with sticks and bottles, who according to those attacked were dressed in a “chav” style. What is more though the article does not mention it, according to comments on the article, another couple of alternative teens were attacked earlier that day in Burnley. Police are investigating.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/display.var.1775574.0.teenagers_chased_and_hit_in_gang_attack.php

This was two days after the committal to trial of the five accused in the Sophie Lancaster case which was held in Burnley Youth court. Is this sudden spate of attacks in the same town a coincidence?

It has been suggested the attack may have been motivated by the newspaper article in the Lancashire Telegraph printed the day before which reported that some shopkeepers in Blackburn claimed that Emos and Goths were intimidating Blackburn shoppers. This may be an unhappy co-incidence but who can say? See previous posts on this.

And what about media coverage of Asa Coon a week earlier see School Killing involves "goth"?

Friday, October 19, 2007

Goths terrify Blackburn?

This insensitive article which was printed on the same day as the committal of the suspects in the Sophie Lancaster case was originally titled 'Emos and Goths intimidating Blackburn shoppers'. It has caused much outrage attracting comments from many people including Sophie’s family. Blackburn is the largest town near to Bacup being only 10 miles away. The article was later renamed “Teen gangs are emo-tive issue” in an attempt to mollify complaints.

Note the young people involved are guilty of no crime as the police comment indicates but are simply assembling in a public place. There was some inaccuracy in the report the description of the group which mentions the fact a number of people in the group had skateboards. This means a considerable number of them are in fact skaters rather than goths or emos as some of the comments on the article make clear.

While the Telegraph claims the article is objective reporting the prejudiced opinions of one of the locals seems crass in the circumstances as many local people made clear in their comments. It seems Church Street has been a hang out spot for alternative teens before this man’s shop was even opened. If the group were guilty of disorderly conduct then the police would act instead the reality is that the group involved have done nothing wrong.

The paper has now printed a new article on the question which further indicates how reasonable those gathered in Church Street are:

Emos and Goths - 'don't be afraid of us'

http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1775489.mostviewed.emos_and_goths_dont_be_afraid_of_us.php

Thursday, October 18, 2007

Halloween sees the beginning of the Trial of Suspects in Sophie Lancaster murder

The five suspects in the Sophie Lancaster case have been committed for trial in Burnley the preliminary hearing will be held at Preston Crown Court on October 31st, Halloween.

http://www.therossendalefreepress.co.uk/news/s/233/233457_murder_rap_teenagers_in_court.html

Black Ribbon Tribute

Article on the SOPHIE fund and many of the local and world wide tributes to Sophie. Much kudos to all of those involved in organising these.

http://www.therossendalefreepress.co.uk/news/s/233/233460_black_ribbon_tribute_to__tragic_sophie.html

Wednesday, October 17, 2007

Bones Skatepark in Bolton burnt/ Skater beaten

A closed skatepark has been burnt down arson is involved. Who is responsible? There is some debate about who is responsible. Although it seems some skaters (foolishly) had been breaking into the park to skate they would not have burned down a place they loved. As one comment on the story said:

Does everyone really think that skaters have done this?? Why would they burn down the only good skate facility? Its all the little kids that wear their Nike track suites and tuck their socks into the pants that have done this. everyone needs to open their eyes to the amount of inbred youths in Bolton and stop blaming people who role about on a skateboard

Those skaters involved in breaking in certainly hold some responsibility perhaps they broke doors or windows which were later used by the arsonists to gain entry or their use of the park attracted attention to it. Yet their wider points are valid. An examination of the history of the park reveals it collapsed as a commercial venture in September 2006 due to persistent vandalism from local youths not skaters:

The final blow came earlier this month when vandals trashed the premises, ripping out water pipes, tearing doors off hinges and smashing hi-fi equipment.

An earlier report Vandals killing skaters' fun park show the level of the problem:

"But we started running into problems when attendance dropped off because customers were being frightened off by gangs of youths stealing their mobiles, cash, skateboards. There's also only so many times you can replace a smashed window."

The former owner and local skaters were persecuted and attacked. Now the park is closed an intelligent guess would blame the same local group of vandals for burning what was left. Indeed looking at details of the situation in Bolton reveals some interesting information.

Local skaters who were banned from the town centre organised a campaign in early 2007 to get a new park built. See the petition here. The council actually not only listened to them but together they managed to get a skatepark set up in central Bolton which opened in August this year. A crucial part of selecting this site was that it had CCTV cover hopefully this would deter further vandalism. Yet the park was rapidly targeted by vandals who broke in a daubed it with graffiti.

Meanwhile on October 6th a teenage skater elsewhere in Bolton suffered a vicious attack:

A TEENAGER had his ankle broken in several places during a vicious attack at a skatepark.

Detectives believe onlookers may have filmed the 14-year-old being beaten on their mobile phones, as he was attacked at the park off Blindsill Road, New Bury.

An argument among a group of up to 20 youths had turned violent and the youngster was knocked to the ground before being punched and kicked to the body. He is understood to have suffered the break when he was stamped on.

At the moment the motivation of the attack is unclear, but it is certainly a situation to watch.

Goth arrested for wearing Handcuffs

Probably a stoke of misfortune here, rather than active prejudice at work, though one suspects the person who reported the goth may have been either rather naive or had a nasty sense of humour. I mean what kind of jail break involves the escapee staying near the Court House dressed in goth clothes? If he hadn't been a goth would the police have bothered pulling him in?

TULSA, Okla., Oct. 15 (UPI) -- Sheriff's deputies in Tulsa, Okla., said a man who was spotted wearing handcuffs unescorted outside a court house was making a fashion statement.

Deputies were called to the scene outside of Tulsa County (Okla.) Courthouse after a passerby reported a man in handcuffs outside the building was unescorted by police or other authorities, Tulsa World reported Monday.

Sheriff's Sgt. Jody Britt said deputies discovered the man was wearing the handcuffs as part of his gothic fashion ensemble.

"I guess he had one end attached to his arm and the other dangling, which to us looks like he escaped from custody," he told the newspaper.

The man was released after authorities checked that he had no outstanding warrants, Britt said.

"Wearing a set of handcuffs near a courthouse is not exactly the most intelligent thing you could do," he said to the World.

Monday, October 15, 2007

Camden Stables Market doomed

Despite a massive internet campaign to save it Camden Stables Market a central point in the UK's alternative scene has been lost. Iconic shops like Black Rose, and Cyberdog are to go. More than 10,000 people have added their names to an online petition to save it. The massively higher new rents plus the glassy buildings inside will seriously alter the structure of the market and the area. It was wonderful use of Victorian buildings now it will be a souless hell. Rumour has it that the ultimate aim is to push out many of traders and eventually urn some of the area into apartments :

Camden New Journal - News: Campaign fails to block £12m revamp

Camden New Journal - by RICHAED OSLEY
Published 12 October 2006
Stables plans win traders' backing despite 'shopping mall' warning

THE campaign against the £12 million redevelopment of the landmark Stables Market collapsed on Thursday night as planners gave permission for building work to begin.
In a split vote, councillors allowed landowners to build a glass complex next to railway sidings in Chalk Farm Road, Camden Town.
Barring an expensive legal appeal, it marks the end of a bitter battle between those traders who want the market to stay as it is and managers Stables Market Limited, whose investors include millionaire clothing tycoon Richard Caring.
The proposals will cut back some of the railway arches to create new retail units and make changes to land surrounding the historic Gin Building and Horse Hospital. They caused a storm of protest, with more than 4,000 supporters signing an online petition.
But the Save The Stables Market Campaign has struggled to maintain a public face and only one speaker addressed Thursday’s crucial planning meeting.
Stefan James, from nearby Harmood Street, said: “This will completely change the nature of the market. Camden’s alternative culture and individuality will be lost. We don’t want glass buildings.”
His protest was outflanked by stallholders who spoke in favour of the new designs. Many signed a petition in favour.
Stallholder Franck Coido said: “The current application will give the market a much-needed facelift and provide us with better-quality stalls in a higher-quality environment.”
Trader Thierry Durieux added: “The proposals are for a new, up-to-date market for Camden.
“They include many small market stalls, providing improved facilities for traders which are badly needed.”
Labour ward councillor Pat Callaghan opposed the “very dominant” proposals. She said: “This is a matter of respecting the setting of the listed buildings.”
Planning officials approved a similar scheme in 2003, so, even if councillors had rejected the latest plans, landowners could have pressed ahead with a large-scale revamp.
After a two-hour discussion with planning officials, councillors voted 6-4 in favour of the proposals.
Planning chairwoman Conservative councillor Dawn Somper said afterwards: “We absolutely support the desire to preserve the independent and alternative attraction and feel of Stables Market – rather than it looking like a typical high street – and also its economic importance to Camden Town.”
Suki Jacobs, from the Stables Market campaign, whose husband is a stallholder, said: “The planned building will resemble a shopping mall. It doesn’t make any sense.
“I have lost faith in English Heritage. Precisely whose heritage do they protect?”

The campaign has been marked by long slow starvation of the type of edgy and interesting stalls that make Camden interesting

camden-news-stables

Sepember - TRADERS forced to move from their spacious arches in the Stables Market in Camden Town say their new temporary spaces are a “death row” for their businesses.
They were forced to evacuate their Victorian arches to make way for a multi-million pound redevelopment.
Stallholders were given until the end of August to move out but market management said last week major work such as the demolition of the arches won’t begin for another month.
Instead, work has begun on dismantling some of the temporary shops opposite the arches.
Tensions are mounting as the disparate traders adjust to their new positions, with many claiming they have been moved to a hardly-used tunnelled alleyway while the refurbishment takes place.
They say their regular customers can no longer find them.
One man, who did not wish to be named, said: “It’s become such a joke. My new shop is a third the size of my old shop and they are asking for more money. They call this part of the market death row because nobody comes here.”
But Luke Akehurst, speaking for the market management, said most traders will not face rent increases.

Camden New Journal - News: Traders furious at plans to turn market ...

GALLERY owner Alex Proud has unveiled plans for a glittering new bar in the listed Horse Hospital at the heart of Stables Market in Camden Town. ...

The forum here traces the whole sorry saga.

!! SAVE CAMDEN STABLES MARKET !!

www.savecamdenstablesmarket.co.uk/

Sunday, October 14, 2007

Marilyn Manson at Challenge Stadium | PerthNow

Marilyn Manson at Challenge Stadium | PerthNow

October 14, 2007 12:00pm

MARILYN Manson was one star who was certainly not in town for Telethon.
While a plethora of stars joined forces to raise money for sick children, over at Challenge Stadium Manson and his army of black t-shirt sporting supporters were more concerned with celebrating the seedier side of life. ..

The only mildly controversial statement Manson made was when he declared: "as you know I am responsible for every school shooting that ever happens". His statement was a response to his name being linked to almost every school shooting from the Columbine High School massacre to the recent shooting at SuccessTech Academy in Cleveland.

Loyal Perth fans have been waiting more than 8 years for their goth idol to return after Manson stormed off stage at the Big Day Out back in 1999. Manson was at the start of his performance when he left the stage after being pelted with bottles and cans. This time around Perth punters were far more appreciative of Manson. They were even willing to overlook the poor vocal performance and bad sound mix and the fact that Manson's new band cannot match previous line-ups. But can anyone really hold a candle to the guitar genius of John 5?

Actually he was talking about Asa Coon.

School Killing involves "goth"

A new tragic killing in the United States on October 1oth and once again media coverage sadly highlights items that put subcultures in a bad light. Asa Coon came from a troubled background, faced a life of being bullied, managed to get hold of guns and had been previously been in trouble for violence. Also in a predominately black school he adopted "goth" clothes and liked Marilyn Manson, being nicknamed Jack Black by other pupils said: “He was chubby and short, and he was the only kid in school who dressed like a Goth.”

Guess which element of his background was focused on by some media reports.

On October 12th the highest selling newspaper in the UK The Sun ran this for example:

Gun boy: My god is Marilyn | The Sun |HomePage|News: "A BOY of 14 wounded two schoolmates and two teachers in a gun rampage after boasting he did not believe in God – but instead worshipped rocker Marilyn Manson. Loner Asa Coon – who opened fire with two revolvers at his school before killing himself on Wednesday – had a history of mental problems, US police said yesterday. Days earlier he was suspended for fighting fellow youngsters who objected to his God comments. Doneisha LeVert, 14, said: “He threatened to blow up our school.” Coon, who wore a goth trenchcoat and dog collar, sneaked his weapons past metal detectors at the SuccessTech Academy in Cleveland, Ohio."

Covering it the day before The Sun noted:

"Witnesses described him as a goth with white make-up and black nails – and told how he had chillingly warned his classmates “I’ve got something for you”."

Reinforced from this is the idea that goths are loner killers and the coverage typically focused on this rather than answering questions like how did Coon get hold of guns, why was he obsessed with weapons, how did he get into the school or why did the school not listen to warnings from other people about him? For example better reports noted:"A court magistrate ordered psychological testing and family therapy for Coon after he slapped his mother in 2006, but Coon was not cooperative; he eventually was placed in an interim shelter, where he attempted suicide." This is the real story that some papers have focused on.

Student was 'tormented,' volunteer says
Louisville Courier-Journal, KY -12 Oct 2007

CLEVELAND — Fourteen-year-old Asa H. Coon took abuse, gave abuse, exchanged curses with his mother and said he chose to worship shock rocker Marilyn Manson instead of God. He was the subject of a neglect case when he was 4, and he often went to school looking a mess.

None of that explains why he walked a hallway of his school Wednesday with two guns and started shooting, wounding two students and two teachers before killing himself.

"This kid finally broke," Christina Burns, who volunteered at a school Coon previously attended, said yesterday. "He finally lost his mind."

Coon had been on suspension for a Monday fight when he somehow got into the SuccessTech Academy alternative school. His fellow students said his threats to hurt students last week went unheeded by school officials.

Burns said Coon was intelligent but struggled with school work, unable to focus. He had mood swings, she said. "There was days he was sociable, days where he was shut down, closed in, hated the world," Burns said.

Burns witnessed Coon's troubles with fellow students. She also remembered verbal abuse over his shabby, at times unclean, appearance.

"They picked on him," Burns said. "He didn't have decent clothing. He didn't have decent shoes. He had problems. The other children played on that and tormented him at school."

"Everybody's making him out to be a devil, a demon,' she said, "but nobody knows what was going on with this kid."

Despite 26 security cameras, officials couldn't say yesterday how Coon was able to get into the SuccessTech Academy alternative school. Coon was a new student at the school, but the district has a dossier on past problems. He had mental-health problems, spent time in two juvenile facilities and was suspended from school last year for attempting to harm a student, according to juvenile court records.

The school of about 240 students has metal detectors but none were operating Wednesday. Students said the devices were used only intermittently."

An expert on school shootings highlighted in an interview the real problems to watch for:

"DR. STEVEN PITT, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: To be sure, Anderson, there are red flags to look like things like depression and anger and familiarity with weapons and fascination with the military. Those are all red flags. But there's an art to this, as much as there is a science. I mean, we can go to schools all around the country and lots of people have those very same characteristics... since Columbine, there has been a real emphasis and a real looking at schools where bullying is taking place. Make no mistake about it. Bullying was underreported at Columbine. I think schools have taken a much more aggressive look at the effect that bullying has on youths and as it relates to their acting out behavior."

In the 16 other school related killings in the USA this year no "goths" were involved, though the other killings did often involve people who had been bullied or alienated, had histories of violence and all got access to firearms. Did reports on these other murders discuss the musical preferences of those involved?

Take for example Tyler Peterson, on Octber 7th at an off-campus party, the 20-year-old full-time deputy in the Sheriff's Department, who was also a part-time officer at the Crandon Police Department, murdered six people students and recent graduates of Crandon High School (ages 14 to 20) after a dispute then committed suicide by multiple gunshots. Peterson, unlike Asa Coon, actually killed people but we don't know what type of clothes he wore besides a police uniform or the music he listened to.

Disney hates Metal Machine Head gig censored

Disney cancelled a series of metal gigs back in September.

Worcester Telegram & Gazette News -Thursday, September 20, 2007 Machine Head’s music rattles Disney

Machine Head is disturbing The Mouse.

Twice this month, House of Blues concert venues on Disney-owned property — one in Anaheim and one in Orlando — booted long-booked Machine Head concerts just days ahead of the scheduled performances. The Orlando House of Blues also forced death-metal band Cannibal Corpse to change venues.

Headbanger’s Blog � Guest Blog: Machine Head’s Robb Flynn Talks Censorship

Machine Head frontman Robb Flynn wrote a guest blog about his views on citizenship and censorship...

I have been on the road touring for over half of my life, 13 years of which have been with Machine Head. This is what we do. Frankly, it’s all we know how to do. And in the 13 years we’ve been touring, we have never experienced the kind of flat-out extortion that we were just privy to. Never did we think that what we just witnessed over the course of the last few weeks would ever be possible, let alone tolerated in this day and age. But as I sit here writing these words to you, we are still in an utter state of shock.

About a month ago, we were told that our concert at The House Of Blues in Anaheim, California (which is on Disney property) — after having been on sale for six weeks — was going to be moved on two days notice because Disney had begun silently enacting a blanket policy to eliminate all heavy metal shows from the two House of Blues venues that reside on Disney property. Now, of course, no one would go on record about exactly what Disney’s brand new issue(s) with metal seemed to be (understandably so). But the “unofficial” gist is that metal lyrics were deemed “inflammatory” and metal fans deemed “undesirable.”...

But when a corporation like Disney forces the cancellation of your show because your style of music is “inappropriate,” it really sticks in your craw, especially when you think about what’s playing at the theater right next door. For example, now playing at the Downtown Disney AMC Theater are a number of movies rated “R” for, among other things, “strong sexual content”, “strong horror violence,” “intense sequences of graphic brutal violence,” nudity and drug use. It goes without saying that a heavy metal show is (with the exception of violence) fairly tame by those standards. Hell, even by the oft-assumed worst-case scenarios preached by ignorant conservative groups about “the evils of heavy metal,” the genre still falls well short of offering its fans the sort of influences present in the major motion pictures playing a mere hop, skip and a jump away.

The entire post is intelligent and well thought out and raises important issues.

More background here on coverage:

Machine Head - News

Given the popularity of Machine Head in the UK in particular this is an interesting choice.

Disney Bans Metal, antiMusic calls for Disney Boycott - antiMUSIC News

Nevertheless, we here at antiMusic will do our part and we will no longer carry any articles related to anything Disney including Hollywood Records until they stop their censorship. We encourage you to join us in this boycott and refrain from all things Disney. Shouldn't be too hard.
Machine Head, Arch Enemy, Throwdown, Sanctity, Cannibal Corpse, The Black Dahlia Murder, The Red Chord And The Absence, Obituary, Alabama Thunderpussy, Full Blown Chaos And Hemlock have all suffered under the new Disney fascism.

Machine Head/Arch Enemy

Saturday, October 13, 2007

Goth, Marilyn Manson and Columbine - The Lies which lead to a Legacy of Hatred

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 12 people at Columbine High school in 1999. As well ruining the lives of those who lost loved ones they also left an ongoing legacy of fear and mistrust for other people who were nowhere near Columbine. It meant goths and fans of other alternative music were blamed for murders that were no responsibility of theirs and every time the media mention Columbine the connection is frequently repeated. This legacy owes much to poor media reporting.Why did this myth develop? Because inaccurate reports were made just after the attack as this key examination of the events based on the report of Sheriff's investigation makes clear:

Investigators also criticized the media for propagating the myth that the pair were Goths. Apparently it took nothing more than reports of black clothing and eyeliner among the unrelated Trench Coat Mafia for much of the national media to label them Goths. "That became a whole issue for a week," one investigator said. "Marilyn Manson canceled his concert."

ABC's "20/20" aired a particularly ignorant "report" the night after the tragedy, linking the killers to the scene with alarmist messages about Satanism and cults. Aside from the fact that the report completely misrepresented and maligned the movement, neither Marilyn Manson nor the Goths had anything whatsoever to do with the killers, who had nothing but contempt for the music.

The media even got the idea they were part of the Trenchcoat Mafia (some of whom were goths) wrong:

Harris and Klebold are still routinely referred to as belonging to the Trench Coat Mafia. As recently as Wednesday, in a report on Sears' decision to stop selling a trench coat-wearing action figure, CNN Headline News was referring to "the two Trench Coat Mafia teens who were responsible for the Columbine High School massacre last April." But sources unanimously and unequivocally confirm that the group had nothing whatsoever to do with the murders, and very little to do with Harris and Klebold.

Some of the confusion concerning a wider conspiracy lies with premature remarks made by Sheriff John Stone the morning after the massacre. But the department has since ruled out the possibility that the killers were connected with the group of Columbine outsiders known as the Trench Coat Mafia.

"Harris and Klebold were never part of the Trench Coat Mafia," one investigator said. "They were kind of friends of fringe members." Battan scoffed at the notion of any significant association: "They were outcasts in that!"

By the time of the murders, most of the Trench Coat Mafia had graduated or dropped out, and the term was almost an anachronism, investigators explained. That didn't stop a flurry of would-be terrorists from latching onto the name. "Suddenly, there were thousands of Trench Coat Mafia all over the country," Davis said. "I get Internet threats from, like, Iowa that they're the Trench Coat Mafia," Battan laughed. "Well, there is no Trench Coat Mafia!"

That didn't stop anyone associated with the group from being ostracized. They went virtually unseen at the innumerable memorials and grief ceremonies, and some students even threatened "retaliatory" violence should they show their faces in nearby Clement Park, which became the site of impromptu memorials last spring.

It was widely reported that students associated with the group were effectively prohibited from finishing the school year with their peers at Chatfield High School. However, district spokesman Rick Kaufman says it had nothing to do with the Trench Coat Mafia per se. Eighteen students were identified as acquaintances of Harris and Klebold, he said.

They were offered alternatives such as home-based tutoring, "because of the raw emotions, the strong feelings that existed right after the tragedy." "Twelve of the 18 said, 'Thanks but no thanks,' and returned to school," he said. "Six of the 12 accepted the offer. There was only one student who we were not going to allow back to school."

As far as trench coats themselves, Klebold was known to wear one occasionally. However, "No student can recall ever seeing Eric wear a trench coat, other than once, this past fall [1998], other than the day of the shooting," Kaufman said.

Inside the Columbine High investigation Salon.com Sept. 23, 1999
Everything you know about the Littleton killings is wrong. But the truth may be scarier than the myths.

So the Police themselves said there was no connection to goth. In May 1999 Marilyn Manson wrote an excellent article pointing out the attempt to blame him for the killings was incoherent:

Man's greatest fear is chaos. It was unthinkable that these kids did not have a simple black-and-white reason for their actions. And so a scapegoat was needed. I remember hearing the initial reports from Littleton, that Harris and Klebold were wearing makeup and were dressed like Marilyn Manson, whom they obviously must worship, since they were dressed in black. Of course, speculation snowballed into making me the poster boy for everything that is bad in the world. These two idiots weren't wearing makeup, and they weren't dressed like me or like goths. Since Middle America has not heard of the music they did listen to (KMFDM and Rammstein, among others), the media picked something they thought was similar.

Responsible journalists have reported with less publicity that Harris and Klebold were not Marilyn Manson fans -- that they even disliked my music. Even if they were fans, that gives them no excuse, nor does it mean that music is to blame. Did we look for James Huberty's inspiration when he gunned down people at McDonald's? What did Timothy McVeigh like to watch? What about David Koresh, Jim Jones? Do you think entertainment inspired Kip Kinkel, or should we blame the fact that his father bought him the guns he used in the Springfield, Oregon, murders? What inspires Bill Clinton to blow people up in Kosovo? Was it something that Monica Lewinsky said to him? Isn't killing just killing, regardless if it's in Vietnam or Jonesboro, Arkansas? Why do we justify one, just because it seems to be for the right reasons? Should there ever be a right reason? If a kid is old enough to drive a car or buy a gun, isn't he old enough to be held personally responsible for what he does with his car or gun? Or if he's a teenager, should someone else be blamed because he isn't as enlightened as an eighteen-year-old?
Marilyn Manson: Columbine: Whose Fault Is It? : Rolling Stone

Certainly Harris was a big fan of German Industrial and Techno especially KMFDM and Rammstein which has some cross over with the goth scene, but there is no evidence he had any interest in any more gothic bands. Kebold's favourite music included The Smashing Pumpkins, Orbital, The Chemical Brothers, KMFDM, Nine Inch Nails, and Rammstein. Moreover they did not dress in a goth or any other alternative style, hang round with the goth group in the school and their interests in guns, baseball, and computers were perhaps more significant to them than music. You can see more about Harris's musical interests here Music.

In a way Columbine attribution to goth has similarities to the famous blood libel attributed to Jews, the claim used from the middle ages onwards that Jews killed children in bloody sacrifices and that were used to spark pogroms. Of course the Blood Libel was untrue but that was what people wanted to think. After the shooting bullying and hassling of alternative teens increased across the USA.

In scattered reports from around the country, high school students who dress defiantly, or who are computer lovers, or who qualify in any way as outcasts, say that since the killings in Littleton, Colo., last week, they feel as if they have become perceived not only as different but as threats... The messages pouring in to Mr. Katz have included reports of students being expelled or suspended from school for "antisocial" behavior or sent home to change clothes similar to what the killers wore; of clampdowns by parents on computer use; of increased scrutiny and determined offers of counseling from adults, especially when students say that though they do not condone the shootings, they can understand what motivated them, and of more hostility from other students.

Carey Goldberg " TERROR IN LITTLETON: THE SHUNNED; For Those Who Dress Differently, an Increase in Being Viewed as Abnormal" New York Times - May 1, 1999

In the past twenty years, the Goth subculture has become its own culture, generating many subcultures within itself. I am acquainted with several young people who are part of this. They share my concern at the media's portrayal of Harris and Klebold as Goths. Several have been harassed on the street since the Columbine incident. Yet the truth is that violence is anathema to most Gothic lifestyles. And Nazism is not glorified by Goths. How could it be, my friends ask, when Goths would be among the first persecuted by Nazis today? They fear for younger "quiet freaks" still in high school "who wear black, tint their hair, have multiple piercings, write dark poetry--and aren't ever going to hurt anyone." So do I.
The Columbine Tragedy Countering the Hysteria May 1999

Another good article is here:

5/3/99) Media Finds Easy Monster in 'Goth' Subculture

And then onto more recent times as these articles shows anytime a new attack occurs a link to Columbine is repeated:

Dark days for Goths Emily Sweeney The Boston GlobeOct. 15, 2004 12:00 AM

Sixteen-year-old Sonya Feinn usually wears black clothes, thick eyeliner, and dark lipstick. She listens to Sisters of Mercy and Nine Inch Nails. She is accustomed to people glaring at her Gothic-inspired outfits, so she wasn't surprised when journalists described a Marshfield, Mass. teen accused of plotting a school shooting as a Goth.

"I've rarely seen Gothic figures portrayed in a good light in the news, the media, and the movies," Feinn said. "We get such a bad rap."

In middle school, Feinn's classmates called her a "Satan worshiper" because she wore dark clothes. Ironically, Feinn left that public school to attend an all-girls Catholic high school that requires school uniforms. More recently, Feinn's high school classmates gave her friend Mike the nickname "Columbine" because he wears long trenchcoats - an innocuous article of clothing that became synonymous with school shootings five years ago.

Those notorious long coats and the term "Goth" made headlines in 1999 when two Colorado teens attacked their high school, shooting to death students and teachers. Authorities initially described the gunmen as Goths, because they often wore black clothes to school and dubbed themselves "The Trenchcoat Mafia." Media coverage of the Columbine High School massacre thrust Gothic subculture into the national spotlight, and almost overnight the G-word became inextricably linked to school violence, even though the Columbine killers shared no attributes found in the Goth subculture, with the exception of dark clothing...

Life wasn't easy for him and his darkly dressed cohorts at Lexington High. Classmates would call them homophobic slurs and throw empty plastic bottles at their heads. "To be a guy dyeing your hair black and wearing makeup, you were under constant scrutiny by your peers," said Usmani. "You couldn't walk around town with black dyed hair and eyeliner without being profiled by shopping clerks or having a couple of kids try to start with you." Usmani added, "After Columbine, (Goth) kids were put on the spot more than before."

Feinn has grown accustomed to being scrutinized because of her self-expression. She said her outfits usually draw interesting reactions from passersby. She recently walked into a bagel shop in her hometown of Reading and witnessed a young mother try to shade her child's eyes from looking at Feinn's Goth outfit. In middle school, her classmates called her devil worshiper, or referred to her as Satan. "I was treated so badly (in middle school)," Feinn said. "People in this town aren't comfortable with (Goths)."

She finally decided to leave the Reading public schools and attend her high school, where, thanks to the required uniforms, "no one can judge you on what you wear."

[This next article sadly only one of the many exampls of the Columbine goth myth in action. Virtually everything mentioned in this article about Columbine is wrong 6 years after the killings.]

Eerie Parallels Are Seen To Shootings at Columbine
New York Times - Mar 23, 2005
He is said to have worn a trench coat and listened to Marilyn Manson, the Goth icon. He expressed his admiration for Hitler on a neo-Nazi Web site. And in the midst of a murderous rampage at his high school, Jeff Weise asked a classmate if he believed in God, then shot him, one student recounted in a local newspaper.
As details begin to emerge about Mr. Weise's shooting spree on an Indian reservation in northern Minnesota, there are eerie echoes of the nation's most infamous school tragedy, six years ago at Columbine High School near Littleton, Colo.
At Columbine, the killers, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, belonged to the ''Trench Coat Mafia'' and loved all things Goth. They sometimes did a Nazi salute while bowling and planned their attack for Hitler's birthday. Before killing one student, witnesses said, one of them held a gun to her temple and asked if she believed in God.

The same thing still goes on and on. Through all this Harris and Kebold's evil acts live on tainting the lives of the innocent. Simply check out other reports mentioning Columbine in this blog found here. There is simply no connection between goth and any other form of music and the killings at Columbine. If you are looking for reasons the murders occurred because the teenagers were full of hatred and had easy access to fire arms.

Friday, October 12, 2007

Hate Crime and Subcultures - the debate

As mentioned before on the Epetition the idea of "Hate Crime" legislation being applied to subcultures arose quite soon after Sophie's death and aroused strong opinions for and against. See the debate at this site: Gothic.net Community - Change the UK Law - Goth Hate Crime - lets try anyway. The points raised against the idea of hate crime legislation for subcultures which are noted below come from there. [Note they are talking about an earlier petition not the UK specific one].

Many points are very good and entirely valid. I think it is very interesting to note the reluctance of many to immeadiately endorse the idea, which you might think from an emotional and purely tribalistic perspective might seem very attractive given the strong feelings Sophie's death aroused. Does this mean goths think too much as some people have suggested? Or that goths actually are as individualistic as they often claim to be? Is dealing with goths like trying to herd cats as I myself have observed?

Whatever you conclude this is why I think it is important to emphasise as well education and awareness - the ideas pursued by the SOPHIE campaign, rather than necessarily wage a battle over whether this a hate crime or not? Trying to reduce negative coverage of subcultures in the media is a key element in this I think.

Some of the key points and ideas mentioned in the debate against the idea of redefining Hate Crime are:

A) subcultures choose to be different unlike gay or racial minorities:

IsolatedReptile: What I said was, it's a fashion thing. Fashion is a choice. If you feel threatened, don't dress that way. It's not a hate crime because you wear black. It's just a crime. It's a hate crime if you are black. You can't help that.

Beneath the Shadows: As far as I'm concerned, the only things that should be considered hate crimes are crimes against people who were born certain ways, ie because of sexual orientation or ethnicity. Those people cannot help what they are, so any crimes against them just because they what they are are hate crimes. But just about everything else is a choice.

Don't get me wrong, I still think that it's tragic that someone will get beaten up for how they vote, or what god they worship, or how they dress. But those are all choices.

Captain Stern: What people are proposing here is we be put on the same level as jewish people who have their synagogues burned and covered in swastikas by skinheads, that we get equal protection like blacks who are hung for dating white women , like other minorities who really have had, and still have atrocities forced upon them in todays society.

Althought I'm sure the founders of the movement have nothing but good intentions, goths have by no means suffered as much as the groups above, or any other minoroties who have been targetted in such a manner.

If we try to compare our plight, which so far is limited to a single incident where a group of random yobs beat up a couple goths in the middle of the night, to these other groups, we will look very petty and small.

B) Where do you draw the line? If Hate laws are extended to some subcultures where does it stop?

CptSternn: Every person beaten is a hate crime. If the kids were wearing glasses and a pocket protector, would we include geeks as a hate crime? If they were wearing tie-dyes would we add in hippies? If they were wearing ren-faire outfits, would we protect people in medieval garb as a hate crime?

What if they wore chicken suits and had gotten beaten up? We going to make Disneyland a protected sanctuary for people in cartoon suits?

Every crime is a hate crime. People get beaten for many reasons. Beating someone because of something they cannot change deserves to be a crime enforced but adding every little fashion change to hate crime laws doesn't help us.

C) You might undermine the importance of existing legislation:

CptSternn: It lessens the effect of real hate crime legislation. If everyone goes asking to be included in 'hate crime' laws, in the end they will just raise the penalties for all beatings because everyone wants to be listed as their own group.... I think even trying to get this put into legislation is a bad idea. It makes goths look petty, and ignorant. It also makes real hate crimes look less important, considering we appear to want protection like minorities or foreign nationals, and we are normal people, average citizens, mostly from affluent areas, who merely choose to wear an outfit.

D) Hate crime is an incoherent and unjust idea anyway. All crimes should be punished equally. This is a longstanding argument against hate crime legislation and comes down to the question of why should crimes against a black/gay/disabled person be treated differently to that of a white person:

Drake Dun: I think we should just extend hate crimes to cover all types of crime. So then it would be "hate murder", "hate aggravated assault", "hate grand larceny", "hate intentional misrepresentation with intent to defraud in connection with interstate commerce" and so forth. So then, see, they would all have "hate" in front of them, so it would be redundant, and we could drop it, and set all the sentences back to where they were to begin with.

Then we could erase all record of the entire process, and quietly pretend that we never went through this ludicrous phase of thinking that beating someone up because you don't like their clothes is somehow worse than beating them up for their wallet.

E) New laws won't change anything it is a wider social problem:

Stephanie: I'm not trying to make light of these situations but you have to be realistic, there are 'twats' out there that commit these crimes regardless of who/what the person is, usually they are bought up with very little discipline/or too much, violence in the home, violence on tv, drug/alcohol problems within the home, the list goes on and on.

'Thugs' know that they will generally get a slap on the wrist whenever a crime is committed and minors know this also, children aren't as innocent as society makes out!!

I understand that your heart is in the right place with wanting to get 'hate' crimes recognised but it would be more constructive to try and get sentences increased, mental/drug/alcohol/social problems looked at as this is where these crimes usually start. We need more information distributed within schools etc.

Friday, October 26, 2007

Thursday, October 25, 2007

Wednesday, October 24, 2007

We wuz robbed!

Read more: Brandon Hill

Tuesday, October 23, 2007

Monday, October 22, 2007

Thu, Oct. 18, 2007 On Oct. 10, when news accounts reported a shooting at a Cleveland alternative school, Gibson, a Fox News radio and TV host, quickly worked out a program condemning hip-hop music.

Sunday, October 21, 2007

Friday, October 19, 2007

Thursday, October 18, 2007

Wednesday, October 17, 2007

Monday, October 15, 2007

Sunday, October 14, 2007

Worcester Telegram & Gazette News -Thursday, September 20, 2007 Machine Head’s music rattles Disney

Saturday, October 13, 2007

Friday, October 12, 2007

What is this blog about?

Subscribe Now: standard

Blog Archive

Subscribe via email

Links of Interest

If you are a member of an alternative subculture have you:

Topics